Difference in fees

[tryingtoimprove]

I'm currently looking at prep schools, and am shocked at the range of prices
£2,000-£9,500 per term.

Now some things are obvious i.e. one school has no grounds to speak of, so go elsewhere for games, others have very flash facilities.

But am I being wrong to think £2,000 school can't be good with offering the best teachers/specialist skills etc, whilst £9,500 I'm paying for the best teachers to have the best cars.

Does anyone else have any logic they apply to fees, or do you effectively "ignore" the fees until the last moment, when having decided everything else is right for you. Or do you choose a school on fees first, then hope it ticks all the other boxes?

I'm gobsmacked at 9.5k per term for day school. That is the equivalent of senior school boarding fees! Eton is only £450/term more and I always thought they were the most expensive. Please tell us which day school this is!

More expensive isn't always better. One of the schools I looked at was more expensive than the one I chose. It went to 13 but lots left at 11 to go to grammar. The school buildings were old and poorly maintained and academically it wasn't very strong (although likes to say that it is). I chose a cheaper non-selective school (which has better results than the selective one I looked at). Decision based on right school for Ds rather than fees.

Quite a few senior day schools round here (Berks) start at 11. Most of the ones that start at 13 are boarding.

The Dragon school charges those fees per year not per term.

You must look at the destinations of leavers.Many schools in the top 20/30 of all senior schools in the country are not necessarily the most expensive ones although they tend to be the most selective ones. Plenty are day schools.On of my daughter's old schools which is often best in the country or top 3 or 5 of every school in the prep bit charges £3,824 a term (North London Collegiate) and then you get other schools often attached to senior boarding ones which charge almost as much for day and boarding and some of those are not always great schools for academic results although some are.

Haberdashers girls junior/prep day often in top 20 of schools is 3156 a term. In fact there might even be an argument that this sort of level for the SE ensures you get more brighter pupils and entry based on academics rather than being for the rich and posh where fees are higher and results sometimes are worse.

Another thing to consider is what you'd do for secondary school. If they would be going to state school then there is no point paying for a school that focuses on CE.

Three of the schools near us go to yr 8 and pretty much all the pupils go on to public schools (all boarding).

I agree with "slug" more fees doesn't necessarily mean better teachers especially at prep school level. But subjects are often taught by teachers who only teach that subject.
Hope your going to tell us who is charging £9.5K a term?!

Even Westminster (which I thought had some of the highest day fees in the country) was just under £7k per term (10/11 prices, years 9-11).

Maybe the £9k is per year?

My dcs are in different prep schools with around a £5-6k p.a difference between the fees.

The schools have different attributes, and the facilities attached to the more expensive one are (significantly) better though this is down to the fact that it is the junior department of a senior school.

But each child is thriving at their school, and, whilst I would love a simpler school run, neither school suits the other child so well that I would move them. So no, I don't think that price alone can tell you what a school is worth. You need to look at the whole package and see what suits your child. Are they sporty, musical, academic? Would they thrive in a single sex or co-ed environment? Do they need structure or freedom? Do they need a small school in order to find their feet or is their personality such that they'll find a large school easier?

The ability to pay for your child's education doesn't give you any guarantee that you are getting a "better" education, but it does give you a "better" choice. Take you time to look at the schools, the differences between them, and what they offer.

Whichever end of the scale you look at, but at the cheaper end of the scale most definitely, check out the accounts of the school - you should find them either on the Charity Commission website or possibly Companies House. If not, ask. I would also ask the head how many pupils he needs to break even each year and how many he has on the rolls. If they evade this question then avoid imo. Many prep schools especially small ones have the odd smaller than usual year group but you need to be able to spot a trend.

The good news is that you are in an area with lots of alternatives. You can move your child later - spaces often come up even at over subscribed schools, and children at amazingly resilient at dealing with these changes.

Nope. The dragon website clearly states 5440 per TERM

Sorry mollie misread. Yes 16000+ a year.

There is a huge variation not reflecting the teaching as everyone has said. As previously mentioned take a close look at the extras both complusory and optional and think about would you DC use these. Be prepared for surprises my DD tried ballet at 4 prior to school hated it. So I didn't sign her up and dismissed it she crazed me for a whole term in the end signed her up for it and three years later she is one of the few still doing it and one of the very few taking the exams.
Has your DH visited any of these schools and he may have a completely different view having done that. My DH was all for leaving it to me then flipped at the fees (which I pay for a variety of reasons), then visited the school and was converted.
DD is at a relatively cheaper school, but it is 3- 18 so both the school and us are in it for the long game. The Junior school is not structured to 11+ and 13+, but more with a view to GCSEs. So there are a lot of things to consider.

Round my way (East Anglia), the day schools are much more reasonably priced than boarding schools, I assume because of the huge expense that goes into maintaining accomodation facilties, several meals a day, extra staff at nights and weekends etc.

Also, most of the boarding schools nearby are in large, Grade 1 or 2 listed manor houses with acres and acres of grounds and the like, (hugely expensive to maintain) whereas, the day schools tend to be in more modern purpose built facilities.

I prefer to spend my money on DS's education, rather than pretty grounds and dormitories.

Sorry to be thick, have we clarified what school (if any!) are charging £9.5k per term for day pupils. I think someone has got confused. My son goes to a very well known senior full boarding school and his fees are a touch under £30k per year.

Really dont believe that there is a day school charing £9.5 per term.

Also, it is not just class sizes that private schools offer...

Yes, take a teenager and loopk at what they badger you to spend on clothes, entertainment, food and the housing of them and the ilke and it may well not be far short of the difference between boarding and day which is about a £10k a year difference on average. Tends to be about £10k - £12k day school and £18k - 25k boarding or somethign of that order in most places.

I'd love the OP to tell us. I've looked at some stonkingly expense day schools but not come across that level of termly fees.

As with house prices, there's big variation according to area and demand. It doesn't necessarily affect the quality of the school or the education.

Sorry for the confusion re fess - really didn't mean to mislead but it's not as straight forward as looking at fees.

And I did get boarding price not day price I did think I had boarding price. The expensive school is Port Regis.

What I did with the fees was take the rate as of today, and increase them each by 3.75% p.a. until we'd get to yr 6, as that is the increase I had this year for our current pre-prep. This took PR to £8,955 - plus for each school I've added music lessons/insurance/PA/one club/£10 sundry (as I always have these on the bills and never get away without them.

Again sorry didn't mean to have you all puzzling.

Genuine error, but thank you so much for all the really good points for how to choose the school, and questions to ask. I've made my fourth appointment today, so by the end of this term I'll become an expert

Tough behave yourself!

OP - ignore her - headmasters leave from time to time. Never, ever base your school choice on liking one individual (disliking is a completely different matter, that can really poison things).

Hi *tryingtoimprove"

I'm coming back to this thread quite late, sorry. (Have calmed down a bit now!).

Firstly - I agree with slug

Secondly - I'm in the same county as you, kids are at private school and DH is a teacher at a private secondary school. Also I attended two local private schools - and played in sports fixtures against most of the rest - so between us we know quite a bit about what's available locally. Do you have any specific questions you'd like to ask?

Choosing a private school is no different from choosing a state school in that you have to visit and go with your gut feeling as to whether the school is right for your child. But going back to your OP, the £4.5k school will not necessarily be "better" than the £2k school. I agree with Xenia - if you're going to spend that much money, you need to look at the bigger picture and think about where you want your DC(s) to go for secondary school.

Thirdly - if you want to go down the CE (or even grammar school) route - please know that going to the best private prep/primary school in the world will not guarantee your child a place at the secondary school of your choice, no matter what anyone may tell you. You need to have a backup plan, and you probably do need to have at least a vague idea of where you might send your DCs for secondary school if they don't get into a selective school that you'd set your heart on. You probably know this but I just had to get this down in black and white, for the benefit of all the parents at my DCs' school who think that sending their kids to the private primary will guarantee their place at the grammar school! (Just thought this might help - if you're going to spend thousands and thousands of pounds on primary education, you don't want to set yourself and your DCs up for disappointment/feelings of failure in the future, and you don't want to put yourself in the position where you - or, worse, your DCs - feel that you've wasted your money).

Ooh MrsMoppet you are the type of person I've been looking for to guide me through this whole process.

In an ideal world my ds would get a scholarship to Canford for senior school.

However, still only young at the moment (yr 1) and not excelling in anything but is very good at everything - is advanced for age in music, is advanced for age in sport, is advanced for age in academia - but and the big but has been diagnosed as 100% dyslexia, which I have been advised is very rare for a child of this age.

Therefore potential senior school would be Milton Abbey.

What I want from the prep school is to maximise opportunities available to undertake numerous hobbies, whilst maximising their academic potential.

Ah. Canford. Know it well.

My dad went there (OK, it was years ago). I had many friends who went there. DH's students play Canford in sporting fixtures. We know teachers who work there. It is a FANTASTIC school but the pressure to excel is very, very high.

Be aware that you will have to pay extra for any SEN support that your DS needs. You probably pay this already. (I pay for extra literacy tuition for my DS, in addition to school fees). At £15 per half hour, this certainly adds up, and I assume you've factored this in when looking at the school fees?

My DS is in Y2 and he is dyslexic too ... Have you spoken to Canford to find out what % of their students are dyslexic and what their setup is? DH has several dyslexic kids in his classes and they all excel academically - well, nobody usually gets below a B at 'A' Level at his school anyway, a bit like Canford, but what I'm saying is that the dyslexia doesn't usually impede them academically, and the earlier it is diagnosed the better.

I'm a huge fan in NOT putting pressure on kids, as I was heavily pressured throughout my own school days and as a result I now back away from the slightest tricky situation - but I acknowledge that very bright, sporty or musical children do need to be challenged. If your DS is advanced in academia, sport and music, I wouldn't have thought that the dyslexia would prevent him from passing the CE or 11+.

I'm assuming you're looking at day schools for prep. Also assuming you're looking at Dumpton, Castle Court etc if you live close enough.

You will find more than one prep school that fulfils your wishes

Do you live close enough to look at Yarrells?

I know people who go to Yarrells - I don't particularly like them :) for that reason I've ruled Yarrells out.

Yes going to see Dumpton and CC to see new head - not anti-boarding so also looking at Clayesmore and why PR was on the list ;)

I have an older son who is state educated (grammar) and is also dyslexic although his wasn't picked up until at the grammar school, where they were shocked at how dyslexic he was. We are going to put him forward for Canford 6th form.

DH very much likes Canford - just have to convince him to spend the money in prep

Many mainstream schools will not take very dyslexic children as they are only able to offer limited learning support; a couple of hours a week max. This is a good reason to find a good prep school who knows the school you are thinking of so that they can advise you. If your DS is only in year 1 then yoiu've got loads of time to think about the next school. But having said that if your DS is very bright then maybe you should consider Winchester they are know to be very dyslexic friendly. There are heaps of activities not all sporty and the slightly eccentric/different (often associacted with dylexics!) are welcome. The only problem is that their entrance test is much harder than CE and you really need to find a prep school that is familiar with it and regularly sends children there Pilgrims is probably best. The Latin/French exams in particular are going to present significant problems if you are dyslexic on the other hand they are very happy to grant extra time, and take poor spelling into account.