Most universities charging top fees

[emy72]

Article on BBC education front page, with a list of unis charging nearly all the top 9k or near enough.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12880840

I thought David Cameron said over and over again that this would be the exception............

Re accountancy, I was thinking of smaller provincial practises, I was forgetting about the big 6.

DD wants to study medicine but they way things are going probably won't make the grades. She might have the ability but teaching at her school isn't the best and she isn't grasping the concept of independent studying. She might do a science degree and who knows what happens in the future. Not everyone can do or know exactly what they want at such as young age of 18/19.

mummytime I think all colleges are 'good' these days: the way admissions are processed had changed quite significantly even in the past few years I believe.

All students are strongly advised not to work during term-time.

It makes sense that students will want the best they can get but they do already don't they?

When I was there someone got sent down for working during term time. It was one of the best colleges (top of the Norrington table).

The money will be provided by the government and I expect that the loan repayments will go back into the pot rather than to the universities, I think. So funding is still coming from the government but treated as future debt rather than expenditure.

AFAIK they are also trying to cut the amount given but that is beyond me so someone more knowledgable should know.

I worked part-time when I did a BSc AND I had two small children - still got the top first in my year!

It is perfectly possible to work and do most degrees. My two eldest are working part-time whilst doing undergrad degrees and I strongly encourage them to do so - they will both graduate with a good degree AND a far more impressive CV and network of contacts than most other students.

As an academic at a fairly prestigious old university (but not Oxbridge) I would never try to dissuade a student working to support themselves or improve their CV - most have plenty of free time - and today an undergrad degree is rarely enough on its own.

I am distraught as I have good friends with DC's in Year 12. For me , my DC have a few years to go - by which time the fees could be even higher.

Our local MP is a Tory one, and we are in a marginal constituency. I will teach him a lesson at the next election. Unfortunately, Lib, Lab and COn are no better than each other.

When I did my degree in the 80's I received a full grant and fees. Where has all this money? gone, if though the government is receiving demonstrably higher tax from receipts from us?

apologies, I made a typo it should read

I am distraught as I have good friends with DC's in Year 12. For me , my DC have a few years to go - by which time the fees could be even higher.

Our local MP is a Tory one, and we are in a marginal constituency. I will teach him a lesson at the next election. Unfortunately, Lib, Lab and COn are no better than each other.

When I did my degree in the 80's I received a full grant and fees. Where has all this money gone? I ask this as successive governments continue to receive demonstrably higher tax from receipts from us?

I too doubt Oxbridge will be worst affected. Oxford raised over a billion pounds in the past ten years, mainly for bursaries; we all knew this was coming. Cambridge raised a similar sum. What I do think is that we might lose some very well off and a few very bright students to the ivies, but that's been the case for a few years now. I don't think it will accelerate. Harvard fees are 45000 dollars a year. 9000 pounds looks pretty good by comparison.

What I do think is that there's a risk of us going private.... and charging even more. If the government keeps its foot in its mouth and keeps on cutting the block grant with threats of worse, I suspect we'll just bow out and leave them to it. I hope to God we don't....

It does seem a retrograde step doesnt it to make a university education unaffordable to a lot of the population without taking on a huge debt but it was bound to become too expensive to keep it free if 50% (Labour's target) of the population went to University. There are simply too many places to fund.

As parents and taxpayers for the past 34 years DH and I are very angry our children won't get a free Uni education if they are qualified for it.

As an academic I am deeply worried that if students think they are buying a degree it will make academic integrity a thing of the past and we wont be able to fail poor students.

I also think too many careers which managed perfectly well for years without needing a degree (like nursing) but now seem to require one, and hope that might stop now and people can go back to vocational training on the job. I supported a friend through a midwifery degree who has gone on to become a fantastic midwife, never out of a job, but couldnt write critical essays for love nor money (and has of course never needed to since!).

I suppose the only good thing is that there is no money to be paid up front and if you never earn enough you don't have to pay it back - so as usual, the ones in the middle will carry the biggest burden

Mytholm Oxford has had a policy for years that during term time only students should not do paid work. Given the demands of the courses, that is absolutely the right line from what I observe. I would be very seriously concerned if any of my children currently there said they intended to work during term and would do whatever I could to say it was a bad, bad idea. Holidays are different, especially the summer.

Terms at Oxford are shorter than anywhere else and the pressure is more extreme than in most other universities bar Cambridge of course. The bursary scheme announced the week before last says in terms 'Whilst there is still much work to be done to ensure that no student is forced to work during term time, we are proud that we are unquestionably the most generous university in the country in supporting our students whilst they are on course'.

Unlike you I will strongly discourage my children from working during term time. I'm not sure what useful contacts they could get from working as a bartender or shop assistant etc. during term time that would put them in an advantageous position as regards jobs after graduation. Their degree is what counts as far as jobs go and beyond that I like them having time to play as well as work, so do they.

Yes Yellowstone in an ideal world I would support and understand your point of view and I wish it was so but my DDs dont work in bars etc - they already have various vocational qualifications etc and earn good money - one works as part of the national talent identification scheme for athletes and goes into schools to ID potential international athletes on behalf of her governing body and the contacts she has are at the top flight in British sport - I can assure you they are VERY useful and likely to lead to a funded PhD. She has never had anything other than support and admiration from her (Russell Group Uni) lecturers. An undergrad degree is not enough today to get ahead.

I accept OxBridge might be different but (please dont hate me I dont mean to be pompous just prove I do know something about it )I am an internationally recognised research scientist in my field and holder of several research council grants and fellowships, and some of my MSc and PhD students have come from Cambridge and Oxford (and I wouldnt say they are noticeably better than my other students from elsewhere - one of my PhD students also works as a dentist and her output is phenomenal!) so its not that I dont understand high-level academia.

However, coming from a non-University family who were all hard-working self-employed business people (including DH) I have to say I find the idea that its not possible to work whilst doing a degree a bit precious - I did it (with two toddlers in tow) and it in no way adversely affected my degree result (top first in my year) or my future career prospects.

Moreover, for families like mine who dont get any help from anywhere, it simply isnt possible for them to go to university if they do not work - the loans only cover fees and accommodation - we help where we can but I am not paying for beer money!

Hi Myth, I really am only saying that mummytime's experience at Oxford a few years ago is still a very strongly adhered to policy. It makes absolute sense. Term time is hugely pressured and doesn't compare to other universities. I read Law at Durham which was thought to be a relatively rigorous degree and I can see that there really was no comparison to what each of my daughters have to do. This is an Oxford and Cambridge thing and doesn't translate.

That doesn't mean they don't work in the holidays to support thamselves, they do! It's just off limits in term time, that's all.

I'd have thought working during a PhD was pretty much of a doddle!

I think a lot of students take up posts within the university which helps enhance their prospects for a future career, but these are unpaid. The thread concerns funding, so having to work during term to supplement grants and loans is really the issue here. And that's where the tutors say no.

Your athletic DD sounds very impressive btw!

Yes, Yellowstone, agree, and it is very much to do with Oxford short terms. My undergraduates often work all through the vac, and while it doesn't help them get jobs, it's financially necessary for some. There aren't many posts in the university for students in the humanities, paid or unpaid, though there are a few. My graduate students often take quasi-academic jobs like copyediting and proofreading, fact-checking, blurbwriting etc. Some work as part-time nannies. Even this only works with a D Phil and not with a taught Masters.

I really don't think you can work in an Oxbridge term. I did history which was relatively lightweight. I was still trying to read 12 books a week, write a 5000 word essay a week and attend 5 to 10 lectures.

Individual colleges may well have very generous support arrangements. I know my college offers generous bursaries to many students at above the level set by the system in general.

'some of my MSc and PhD students have come from Cambridge and Oxford (and I wouldnt say they are noticeably better than my other students from elsewhere'

Mytholmroyd, I am an Oxford academic who has also taught outside Oxbridge and I totally agree with you. I actually think far too much is made of the calibre of students at Oxbridge, verging on idolatory. We should be acknowledging and celebrating top acheiving students from all universities

crystalglasses who do you think fails to give those other students their due? I wouldn't.

The media, for one. I could go on but I've got work to do but I'll be back.

crystalglasses, I think it's less the calibre of the students at Oxbridge than the sheer amount of work they do.

They often don't shine in the first year of graduate work, either, because they are used to seeing tutors often, and not used to writing at length.