DD has not been given any offers for secondary school

[GhostInTheBackOfYourHead]

and the email from pan London is worse than pointless. Email tell us our next step....and then goes blank.

DD is my eldest so I have not been through this situation before.

Do we have to appeal now because that sounds ridiculous as we have not been given anything.

DD is so upset and it is very hard to comfort her. All I can do is tell her it is no reflection on her as a person and that we'll find her a good school.

What do we do now though? Can't speak to LEA till morning but feel I need to be armed with knowledge.

Can anyone help?

The thing that is unacceptable is the LA saying that no offers were possible. If they had said that they weren't able to make an offer at the moment but were working on sorting something out that would just about be ok, but this is not. I hope they've come up with some good answers for you.

Exactly Pixie, there must be very few people with no offers at all. It is only manners that an Admissions Advisor should contact all families in Ghost and Sadmum's situation.

Instead, they send out the emails at 5 pm, and then bugger off home to avoid fraught calls. I expect they justify this by saying that snail mail candidates do not get their results until today. If that is the case, then they should post the letters one day early, or send the emails at midnight, so at least sane people would accept that no-one is in the office.

Families and children are being treated dreadfully.

Quick update..

Received the letter today from LEA confirming contents of email.

No apologies or anything human like that, just an enclosed appeal form.

I have discovered she is 6th in her Band on the waiting list for her second favourite (and most likely) school. I will also be appealing the decision on that one .

Am waiting to see how DD is today. She normally goes to and from school on her own but this morning I took her. I felt like she needed a playground buffer from all the (naturally) excited girls asking school questions. Such a shame that she felt excluded from what is a major milestone in their lives.

Anyway, I'm thinking that we might have a good chance of getting a place at 2nd choice as we are without a place at all, rather than wishing to change. The list of schools with vacancies the LEA gave me has not filled me with joy. Will home educate if necessary and I have always said I would only do that as a last resort.

Again, cheers for all the responses, each and every one of you.

sadmum...any developments?

Oh dear. If your LA has sent you a list of schools with vacancies that is a clear violation of the Admissions Code. Paragraph 3.15(g) says that "Parents who cannot be offered one of their preferred schools MUST, if there are places available, be offered a place at another school". There clearly are places available so they should have offered you one, not simply sent you a list.

Hey! Right update....

I have been on the phone ALL day! Oh I am not really getting anywhere! I have aged 10 years in the last 24 hours!

I received my letter as well - Relaying the email stating "no offer possible" I didn't receive any forms for appeals or guidance/advise or anything. The only other thing on the letter was a list of other boroughs and numbers. No advice on what to do etc - NOTHING!

Local council admissions office said that they do not have any vacancies to offer me and that I need to apply to go on the waiting lists of schools i have applied for.

2 of the schools I applied for don't operate a waiting list until 23rd March!

1 school has me placed at position 69 in band D (not a chance in hell apparently)

1 school has me at number 26 in band B (there are 5 bands!)

1 school has me at number 13 on the waiting list (This was choice number 6 on my list)

Apparently i can go up and down on these lists....it all seems like a long shot at the moment

Education authority has advised me of a couple of schools that will accept late applications as they are undersubscribed....they look terrible to be honest, I have never heard of them, and they are miles away in areas i haven't even been to before (schools are Feltham school/Brent copland/hounslow manner) These are not in my borough, nor neighbouring boroughs!

I have obtained appeal forms for 4 of the schools (my 2nd/3rd/4th/5th choices) so i am going to appeal to those. Apparently need really good reasons to appeal - How about NOT HAVING A SCHOOL TO GO TO?

ghostinthebackofyourhead - Keep me updated on progress/development.

I'm leaving work shortly, to face my little boy who is so sad and confused why no schools want him :(

It seems your LA don't have a clue what they are doing. The letter they sent stating you didn't have a place at any of the schools for which you had applied MUST state the reasons your application has failed and tell you of your right to appeal. A failure to do that is a direct breach of the Admissions Code - paragraph 1.40. That's two breaches of the Admissions Code already! Keep a note of these. They will all be useful at appeal.

"Need really good reasons to appeal" - In your situation I think you have got really good reasons. The LA has failed in its duty to offer you a place at school. The appeal will be about whether the prejudice caused to the school by having to admit your daughter outweighs the prejudice to your daughter by not being admitted. Normally your case would be about the features the preferred school has that would be of benefit to your daughter and which are not available in the allocated school. You should still try to put together reasons why the school is the right one for your daughter but the prejudice to your daughter here is that she won't get an education if she isn't admitted. That is a very strong case in my view.

I heart prh47bridge

I agree with prh47bridge. You have very strong grounds for appeal, but the appeal proocess is very stressful so do you really want/need to put yourself through five appeals? Choose the one (or two) schools that you really want and appeal to those. Talk to your MP/Mayor and get them to go to the appeal with you.

oops, sorry; 4 appeals not 5

Good morning.

Yes , somersetmum, we don't really want to do four appeals. I think we will just being doing two. DD's school is terribly good at helping with appeals and attending panels so I feel much more confident having experienced staff on board.

I am seeing one of the teachers this morning to complete the paperwork with her.

Does anyone know how long you have to wait to hear outcomes of appeals?

Sadmum, hope your DS is feeling a bit better. Have you spoken to his primary to see if they can help?

prh47bridge, if the letter sent by the LEA says DD did not get in because the schools were full, does that count as giving a reason, i.e. Admissions Code, para 1.40?

Sadmum and Ghost - just a suggestion because this is all so complicated. It would be a good idea to contact your local councillor and get him or her to help you with the paperwork and procedure and get you in touch with the right people. Provide them with a careful note of what has gone wrong procedurally and I am sure they will be very supportive also behind the scenes at the Town Hall. You will be able to find out the names of your local councillors via your borough's website.

Saying the school is full is a statement of the blindingly obvious and does not meet the requirement to give you a reason. They should be giving you more information than that. They will have to give more information if you appeal.

You should hear the result of an appeal within five working days of the hearing, although it can take longer than that if there are a lot of appeals for the same school.

Personally I would be a little cautious about involving politicians. They are unlikely to be familiar with the details of the Admissions Code and often give poor advice. Taking one to the hearing may be counter productive.

Hi again,

Thanks for the responses.
onceamai I think you're right in that I may want to contact my councillor at some point in the process. However, I have been offered some experienced support from a teacher at DD's primary school. Last year she managed to win 5 appeals in the then Year 6 class. I'm actually just about to pop up to school now to see her.

prh47bridge I am pretty sure that the reason DD did not get in to the TH school was due to being outside the catchment area. The list the LEA sent me containing the schools with vacancies also contains schools in different catchment areas. So, a couple nearer to us than the ones we applied for but also some further away. I really did not want to get into a debate with anyone, least of all a Panel , regarding why we don't think the local school would not best suit our daughter.
best serve our daughter.

If I did decide to look at and apply for a different school on the vacancies list, would that adversely affect my grounds for getting into our original second choice school as then we would be in possession of a place, rather than being without anything.

Sorry for the rambly post. I am feeling full of cold and there is so much else going on atm, like settling DS into a new nursery. He his at his first proper session now, eek.

Will check in later.

Again, thank you for all the wonderful advice. I am constantly amazed at how MN becomes a selection of friendly voices of wisdom at the times I need it most.

oops slight typing mistake there, not a vehement fist thumping sentiment

Sympathies to you guys - it's so tough ,been there myself .
Wish mumsnet and the ever helpful and knowledgeable posters like prh47bridge had been to hand back in my days of tribulation....

With regard to taking politician, it depends on how regularly this situation happens in your area. Where we live, large numbers of appeals are the normality every year. Our MP is approached every year and it is one of his hot topics. I know of several people who took him to appeal and won; we didn't and we lost. I am not saying that this has any significance to the result but, if you are lucky enough to have an MP who knows his/her stuff and has a track record of success, go ahead and use them.

To be honest, I suspect that when you appeal the LA will pull their fingers out and offer you a place. So I doubt that applying for another school will adversely affect your chances of a successful appeal. It might at least make sure you get a place at the best of schools available.

The panel should only be interested in why you think the preferred school is more suitable for your son than the allocated school (if there is one by then). Your reasons for not wanting other schools are not relevant.

onceami I must have missed the post where you said your last school year has been a disaster. Sorry to hear that.

Had a very reassuring meeting with the member of staff, the indomitable Mrs C, at DD's school. There is a great deal of shock at the school that this could happen again this year. What has been lovely is they are being such such champions of DD. Mrs C knows the system and the people in it as well as Heads all over the area so we are in very capable (and forceful ) hands. She has experience of working both sides of the Appeals system. sadmum are the school supporting you with this?

I discovered today that in Tower Hamlets this year 130 children were not given any offers at all. This allocating system has quite a few casualties.

oops, pressed post too early.

I think using the fact that preferred school is a Performing Arts specialist and DD has been very dutiful in attending Performing Art Club and taking part in violin performances all over the city, then that might be helpful. This is the school that places her 6th on list for her band. Still trying for another one over the river as it is a feeder school. One of the problems, I've been told, is that children who are in the top band have a bigger fight on their hands due to the scarcity of places.

That sounds like the beginnnings of a good case for the Performing Arts school, even if the LA do manage to sort out an offer. That doesn't mean it will succeed - that depends in part on how strong the case is not to admit. But it gives the panel a positive reason why your daughter would particularly benefit from being at this school.

I know of Hounslow Manor school and Feltham - put it this way my DC wouldn't be going there.

Support from the school? None at all, they told me to call the admissions authority directly as it's nothing to do with them and couldn't help at all!

I am even further downt he waiting lists than i was 2 days ago - so things just seem to be getting worse!

oh sadmum that is very shoddy. I'm so sorry.