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Original poster

Big problem at school, please advise

82 replies

nutcackle · 19/10/2005 11:08

Right this will be long so get comfy.

About 2 weeks ago now maybe less, Dd1's friend who i'll call Molly, came out of school saying that during her maths lesson with Mrs X she had got several questions wrong and the teacher had called her stupid, resulting in her classmates calling her stupid at break time.

About 2 minutes later Dd1 came out and overheard what was going on and said that Mrs X had also called one table pathetic and the whole class silly and stupid.
Dd1 wasn't too bothered by this so I decided to leave mentioning it until parents meeting which was yesterday.

In the time between the incident and parents meeting I vaguly questioned Dd1 as to what exactly was said and her story never ever changed so I told her I would speak to her teacher about it (maths teacher is different person). Dd1 was quite happy with this which is why I believe her. In the past if Dd1 has been telling lies, the thought of me telling the teacher has been enough to bring out the truth.

Anyway at parents meeting yesterday I did say to the teacher that I was concerned about the maths teacher but I let Dd1 explain what had happened and again her story was the same.
The teacher said that another parent had also complained (Mollys'mom) and that she could only apologise and say that she would investaiget it further.

This morning Dd1 walked up to her class with Molly and her mom as I was wrestling dd2 into her classroom. Mrs X came over and asked if she could speak with Mollys mom and me. Mollys mom went in and explained where I was. Mrs X was insistent that Molly be in the room and then basically proceeded to question Molly as to exactly what she was accusing her of saying she would never say such things as she had been bullied as a child and so knows what it's like.
She also said she had been crying about it all night and that she could be sacked and then started to cry again.
I am horrified that she seems to think that sort of behaviour infront of a child is appropriate or proffesional.
Molly apparently wouldn't say a word (can't say i blame her) and the teacher just kept going on about she could be sacked or perhaps she should retire.

I think the way Mrs X has handled the situation is awful and almost like she was trying to guilt Molly into admitting she made it up.

I'm not sure if she will want to speak to me when i colect Dd1 but tbh if she does I am not sure what I should say to her.

Who am I supposed to believe ??

OP posts:

Blandmum · 19/10/2005 17:13

nutcackle, she isn't the first to fib and she will not be the last. I am glad that she has told you the truth now, and that is the important thing to concentrate on, and build upon.

Kids are generaly truthful but even the very best, nicest, kindest, most intelegent and well brought up will resort to telling a whopper every now and then, if they think it will get them out of a jam. Since I came into teaching I have been astonished at how well children can lie. They can be utterly convincing.

I think that making her applologise is a terrific start. Don't panic about this, it happens all the time in school!

It is always worth checking stuff like this out before going to the head etc etc

Original poster

nutcackle · 19/10/2005 17:15

She has told big lies before though and I've always punished her for that but she obviously doesn't care.

She can't give a reason for doing it and doesn't seem to care that everyone is so upset.

I have told her she has to go to bed at 7pm for a week with no reading in bed either.

Feel like grounding her for a year but obviously i won't.

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Blandmum · 19/10/2005 17:26

Just out of interest does she understand that saying this sort of thing about her teacher could have had very serious implications for the teacher and the school? This sort of thing is hell for teachers to cope with, as parents can often thake the attitude of 'No smoke without fire'.

Original poster

nutcackle · 19/10/2005 17:40

Oh yes I have explained several times now that her teacher could have been in alot of trouble and that she could of lost her job.

Have also told dd that she would probably have had to move schools. Dp thinks I shouldn't have said that but it certainly made her think so I'm glad i did.

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Original poster

nutcackle · 19/10/2005 17:40

I am so upset that she could know that Mrs X was so upset and then still continue to lie .

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Blandmum · 19/10/2005 17:45

This a a rotten thing for you to be coping with and you have my sympathy. Does she just have no concept , do you think, of how upsetting it is to be lied to/about? Not being nasty here, just trying to get to the root of things.

Original poster

nutcackle · 19/10/2005 17:50

Umm i really don't know now. She has lied before and I have punished her, explained why it is wrong and told her she is never to do it again but she obviously isn't taking it in.

I asked her is she did it because she doesn't like the teacher or thought that backing her friend up would help but she said it wasn't for either of those reasons, she just did it.

Will the school punidh her too do you think ?? I have no problem with that but didn't know if i should mention it or not.

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Blandmum · 19/10/2005 17:53

I've been having a think about this. I'm probably going to get flamed to hell and back for this one but what the heck.

If she really doesn't understand what all the fuss is about (and I realise some of this could be her trying to save face, and you are 100% sure that she doesn't see why you are upsetI'd do the following.

Tell her that you will take her to the cinema to see the latest film (insert big treat of your choice here). Let her get excited about it and get ready, five minutes before you are due to go, tell her that you lied to her, and ask her how she feels.

When the waters have calmed and you have both had a good chat over it, have a small treatette to 'make up' ....trip to the park her choice of TV etc

Do you think that would help her undetsand why it is important to be honest? Or am I blowing hot air?

PuffMeHearties · 19/10/2005 17:53

Is the Head still in the dark about it?

Original poster

nutcackle · 19/10/2005 18:44

I couldn't do that Martain. I understand what you mean but I just couldn't do it.

Puff - Yes the head is still in the dark. Have explained to Dd that she is lucky in that respect.

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Blandmum · 19/10/2005 18:46

Fair enough. I hope that you get it sorted and as I said, you have my every sympathy

Pinotmum · 19/10/2005 18:49

Sorry haven't read full thread so may be repeating but have you told her how you feel. She may not give a damn about poor Mrs Nervous Breakdown but perhaps if you tell her how disappointed you are and how sad you feel that you can't believe what she says then she may take this on board. Also tell her about The Boy who cried Wolf and how lying does have consequences beyond just now.

Original poster

nutcackle · 19/10/2005 18:55

She had the boy that cried wolf on tape so knows the story off by heart oddly enough.

I have told her how upset I am but I think she thinks it will blow over, which it will in time but not yet.

TBH i think it will hit her when she is standing in front of the teachers tommorow apologising.

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Caligula · 19/10/2005 19:01

Gosh. How awful for you.

But how odd that the teacher reacted like that as well. If it were me, I would think the fact that the teacher responded so unprofessionally, was an indication of her guilt.

Just shows that just because somone is odd and unprofessional in one way, doesn't mean they are always odd and unprofessional.

Has your DD coherently explained exactly why she and this other child concocted this tale?

Mojomummy · 19/10/2005 19:03

Have to say agree with MartianBishop. This is an ideal way for your daughter to understand the implications - How old is DD1 ?

if DD1 hadn't confessed & the teacher had been sacked, what a terrible waste of a good teacher & all the other school children would be affected by DD1's actions.

Has DD1 said why she did it ?

I think there maybe a whole set issues going on here..........

Blandmum · 19/10/2005 19:05

The reality is that when children make allegations they are taken seriously (for excellent reasons). Teachers may be suspended when allegations similar to this are make. It is extreemly upsetting and distressing for the staff concerned. It sounds as if the poor woman is at the end of her teather.

A friend of mine was falsly accused of had butting a child....in fact the child had head butted the teacher. The whole class suported the teacher, it was still very grim for the friends at the time.

Original poster

nutcackle · 19/10/2005 20:28

Dd1 is nearly 8.

Mollys mom has just been round to tell me that Molly was also lying.

I'm still unsure of how it all came about. They don't seem to have planned it at all. Seems to just be that Molly said Mrs X called her an idiiot and the Dd1 joined in with the accusations.

Mollys mom doesn't seem as bothered as I am though.

I agree that Dd1 needs punishing but I disagree that me lying to her to prove a point is the way to go about it.

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Original poster

nutcackle · 19/10/2005 20:29

Mojomummy exactly what issues do you think may be going on ?

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Pinotmum · 19/10/2005 20:34

I think an apology and some favours for the Teacher are in order. Staying back in break time and helping for instance. There is a lesson taht should be learnt from this imo by your dd and her friend. Maybe the Teacher can make some suggestions as to a suitable punishment over a period of a week so it sinks in.

Original poster

nutcackle · 19/10/2005 20:36

Favours for the teachers is a good idea, I will suggest that when she is apologising tommorow.

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Blandmum · 19/10/2005 20:37

My dd misled a teacher, didn't lie about her, but did deliberatly mislead the woman. We grounded her for a week, made her write a letter of appology to the teacher concerned and the Head. We also supported the school when they asked dd to do some extra jobs around the school. So far there has been no repeat.

Original poster

nutcackle · 19/10/2005 20:39

I was going to ground her but she doesn't really go anywhere so i don't think it would have bothered her.

I will let you know what happens tommorow.

Oh and mojomummy i'd still like to know what you meant.

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Pinotmum · 19/10/2005 20:39

I think the only "issue" here is that this teacher is seen as weak by these children and that is down to her. She has proved this by her reaction in front of "Molly". I do feel for the Teacher but really she did over react.

Blandmum · 19/10/2005 20:42

Pinotmum, the teacher might have been worried that everyone would think she was a harsh , uncaring teacher, or that she was cracking up, or that she should be suspended before she bullied other children. Her reaction was poor, but this was the immediate reaction of mnetters. I dare say she felt the same thing would have been happening in school as well.

Original poster

nutcackle · 19/10/2005 20:46

I feel absolutly dreadful for the teacher I really do and now think that although the way she went about things was unprofessional, I can understand why she was so extremely upset.

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