What are the main differences between a private "primary/prep"school and a very good primary state school?

[bettiejane]

My daughter is due to start nursery in a private schools nursery dept. We were wondering what the main differences would be when she actually starts school with the 2 different types of school?
Obviously the fees!

But our local state primary is very good and oversubscribed,so she may not get a space. Is it really worth paying out for private? Especially if I have to work an extra day!

Any views?

It depends entirely on the specific state and private school you're comparing.

Usually the main tangible difference is smaller class sizes; there may or may not be better facilities.

Class sizes will be a big one. Almost all state schools work on class sizes of 30 (particularly if they are popular).

National Curriculum/SATs is another biggy if that's important to you - private schools don't have to follow the NC or do SATs.

My DDs private primary followed the NC as a 'core' but did some extra stuff; it did yr6 SATs only (the head teacher wanted to drop them, the parents wanted them kept)

You need to look at the specific schools, as it is not as clear cut as 'state/private - depends on the child's aptitudes and interests and the school's ethos.
We are in the position of being able to directly compare our local outstanding state primary and the local leading independent school as DS2 is currently in Y6 @ the Primary, and two years ago DS1 did his Year 6 in the indie. For those two specifc schools their experience educatioanlly is very different. At the Indie much more is expected of teh children in terms of maturity and independent working/thinking there is masses of sport, and the standard of teaching is dramatically better - specialist eager and enthusiastic teachers for all subjects - and so for a n academic'sporty child - there is no contest - the indie is hands-down better. DS2 is chomping at the bit and disappointed that he cannot go to the Indie until Y7 (school changed their rules about taking children in Y6 due to pressure from local primaries that did not want to lose their ablest pupils as it would affect the primaries schools SAT results

As others have said it is entirely dependant on the schools and your family.

For us the biggest selling points are

• class sizes - both in classes of under 13 DS2 (year 3) has teacher and TA in his class of 12
• Sports - cross country, rugby, hockey, and swimming till it comes out of their ears!
• Non core subjects - Carpentry, Latin/myths and legends, orchestra, choir, additional art and drama
• SEN support for DS2 was fantastic
• supportive and nuturing environment (which they didn't have at state)
• academically demanding for those that need it - very bright but lazy DS1 (age 11)

On the whole for us the differences were as clear as day the minute we started looking. So much so that DD1 is going straight into Reception in September rather than waiting until year 3 as originally planned. Looking at 3rd job to pay for it mind you!

sorry - good luck with your choice.

my dds are at a not outstanding state school and I find nearly all the things mentioned above - nurturing environment, lots of extra curricular etc, as being unique to private as on offer, so it just depends on the school, you have to look. Class sizes would be an issue for me but so far dd's class is only about 23 (inner London too) and she has three sometimes four teachers in the classroom so all good

Our son is due to start Reception in September and we'll be going private for several reasons.

• Class sizes - our local primary school is excellent but has a class size of 30. Of the schools we've applied to for V, the biggest class size is 16, the smallest just 12.

• Sport - we're a rugby loving family, and from our research, rugby isn't really a big part of sporting life in state schools. In private schools, it's the sport to be involved in, and we want that for V. The availability of other sports is wider too.

• Curriculum - the school we hope V will be accepted teaches French from Reception and then German, Spanish and Latin are introduced in subsequent years. We believe in the teaching of Latin and you don't find it in state schools.

• Extra-curricular - the activites on offer are incredible, and I'm sorry to say, far exceed those at the local primary school.

I think ultimately, your decision will rest on what is important to you, and what isn't. If you're not that concerned about how many sports or extra-curricular activities are on offer, and you're happy with class sizes being a bit larger, then it's probably not worth shelling out school fees. However, if those things really matter, then you should explore private schooling.

Class sizes.
Broad curriculum.
Excellent sports.
Excellent music.
High standards of discipline and expectation.
Most parents singing from the same hymn sheet.

That's what we got and which would not have been available at our local primary.

I'm been thinking about this a lot too and I think what it makes the decision tougher is when the local state schools are excellent. Not just what in terms of what ofsted and the SATs say, but also what local parents say, including wealthy ones who could afford to go private. My DS would still probably get more at the local prep school in terms of sport, drama, music, etc, but it feels bizzare paying a lot extra to live in an area with great state schools and then sending him to a private one...

DC's prep school is the nearest school to me so that makes the choice easier .

But there are parents who drive their children in droves from a nearby town wiht one of the top acheiving schools in the country.

I'm very nosy and am always dying to ask why.

I only know a couple well enough to ask.
Class sizes was an issue.
Facilities etc

I guess it also depends how much money one has.

Investment bankers or those with trust funds aren't going to bat an eyelid at the fees. So even if the 'advantage' is small, I giess they think why not.

For others who would have to find fees from a more modest income, the decision may be much harder. Or the 'advantage' much greater.

I've got one at 'outstanding' state primary and one at prep (moved there at 11 from primary) and to me the differences in the early years (ie before 11) are mainly about all the extra stuff.

The state primary is very nurturing, has loads of music, drama, sport etc for a state primary, but it just can't compare to the standard and scope of the music, drama, sport,art offered at the prep school.

The prep is academically selective too, so there is a lot more challenge in lessons, and specialist teachers for each subject. But I'm not sure that's so important early on though by about Y5 I think it starts to make a difference - DS2 would thrive with a bit more academic rigour and substance now.

Why don't you look at all the options and then make a decision. Posters can only give you advice based on experiences of their local schools and the private prep may not be as good as the state primary.

Singersgirl - are you tempted for your DD2 to join the prep school now?

Sorry, your DS2.

you can provide a lot of after school activities such as music and sport yourself. And there are benefits to your child going to school with neighbours children rather than being driven or bussed in from miles around like so many private school pupils.

It is very different have school orchestras and school teams that doing them out of school. What I can observe from my families and friends it is much more difficult to keep children carrying on with music or sport when they don't do it as a group of people they know well. I don't think it is a good substitute

I think you can do sports out of school - loads of footie/rugby/swimmimg clubs around. All very well attended ime.

However, some DC are not inclined to attend after school, particularly in the dark (not mine I hasten to add, I have spent far too many evenings in the bloody cold).

And frankly, some parents don't want to give up the time, or can't due to other committments (work, younger children, elderly relatives, no transport, no money).

Music, I don't know. Are there many ochestras/choirs/ensembles etc for primary age children?

Many of DD1's school friends do the same after school activities as she does. So much so that we can share the journey out between available adults.

But this underlines why it is important to visit - many state schools have excellent music and sport opportunities. Many don't, which is a disgrace. You have to see for yourself.

Most state primaries seem yo offer violin/ recorder/ choir but not 'the more weird and wonderful instruments you see being lugged into the private prep!

Difficult to judge and it very much depends on specific schools.

For me it was smaller classes, smaller school, and better wrap around care.

I agree, you have to look at the specific schools.

Round here, primary class sizes are usually about 22. Where classes are smaller, there are often social issues because of a smaller 'pool' of friends available. Obviously that's not always going to be the case, but it is a recognised issue here. V small classes are not always a fab idea.

Our local independent schools tend to have longer days, greater pressure but more after-school opportunities etc. 'Average' or above pupils seem to do well; I'm aware of quite a few pupils with SEN who have ended up back in local state primaries as the indy schools have either not really known how to support them, or have made it clear to their parents that they wish them to withdraw the child.

However, I've jumped into the anecdotal mistake myself now! - you must look at the various options local to you.

If your local state primary is oversubscribed then I assume that the class sizes will be larger than in the prep.

I have gone private for DS
Small classes 12-15
One to one help where needed
Specialist subject teachers
More sports (time and range)
Better facilities esp playing fields (in London this can be an issue)
Not required to stick to the NC
Good preparation for Senior school exams etc

My son has a summer birthday so I think the smaller classes and 1-2-1 really make a difference.

I love the fact that he spends his break chasing around the field and that they build bases amongst the trees - many London state schools have limited outside space.

And remember, it's 'better wrap around care', not 'free baby sitting'