Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

classical education/trivium/Latin/Greek

79 replies

ZZZenAgain · 31/12/2010 13:13

Am thinking of asking MN to set up a sub-topic in education on classical education but not sure if there would be enough interest to warrant a separate topic.

Is there anyone who is strongly for or against classical education?

(Am currently reading "Climbing Parnassus" and thinking about this whole thing a bit.)

OP posts:
Tinuviel · 20/01/2011 14:28

www.memoriapress.com/descriptions/Latin-Games.html

Haven't used them or even seen them but have thought about it!

I will be putting some Latin games on this site soon but they require you to know whole declensions/conjugations (which Cambridge Latin doesn't do!)

jetgirl · 20/01/2011 16:11

CLC does do declensions and conjugations! There is language info at the end of each book. My year 8s are very hot on declensions Grin

Will investigate what I have for you, gramercy.

Tinuviel · 20/01/2011 21:24

OK, I'll rephrase it, compared to other books, CLC doesn't explain them very clearly and doesn't give enough practice. It is, as I've said before, an excellent book for Latin - English translation. I'm sure a good teacher will add grammar to CLC but I haven't found it that great as a stand-alone resource, which is why we added Galore Park (which isn't quite as exciting as CLC so we use both!!)

jetgirl · 20/01/2011 21:33

Have you used the website or independent learning manuals that accompany the course? They are quite pricy, but if you wanted a look at a few pages I could send you them. There's also the 'Cambridge Latin Grammar' book which is a very comprehensive reference book with exercises.

clc website

gramercy · 21/01/2011 09:20

Thanks!

Tinuviel: The memoriapress stuff looked interesting but... they are the in the US and the materials were quite pricey - with of course the problem that it is a bit of a pig in a poke.

I just went on your school site - I tried a game of French battleships but I'm afraid I couldn't understand how to play!

jetgirl - it would be great to know what other resources you have. Ds has been on the clc website and done the games there, but is looking for something a bit different.

Incidentally, I see (stalking on profile emoticon! that you are local to me! Where do you teach? You can answer in code - ds goes to T in CF. He is taught by a former teacher at KE.

butterflymum · 21/01/2011 11:58

Quote: "Classics is an excellent way to get a really good conceptual understanding of grammar and how languages work. It's also a very broad subject; you study the literature, history, art, politics, philosophy etc of two whole cultures. It's a huge shame that Classics has been attacked by both the Left and the Right as elitist and/or irrelevant."

Well said. I was more than a little disappointed when our eldest started at Grammar a few years ago and we discovered that they had dropped Latin as a compulsory subject. Schooled in Scotland myself, in a state secondary, I am perhaps biased having studied both Latin and Ancient Greek to SCE Higher Grade.

butterflymum · 21/01/2011 12:07

Just remembered, and I realise it is more for a younger age group, but discussions on Minimus and/or Minimus Clubs used to come up now and again as a topic on Mumsnet years ago:

www.minimus-etc.co.uk/about_page.htm

www.minimus-etc.co.uk/#

Haven't seen it mentioned yet in this thread, so hope it is of help to some.

butterflymum · 21/01/2011 12:08

Whoops, forgot to create the links:

www.minimus-etc.co.uk/about_page.htm

and

www.minimus-etc.co.uk/#

jetgirl · 21/01/2011 19:20

gramercy - I teach in S at C. We're the only state school with Latin on the curriculum in the city. I know some of the teachers at KE. I do tutoring too - I have ! fantastic year 10 pupil atm. I also organise the Latin reading competition for local schools, and we accept private entries too. I could pm you details if you're interested!

butterflymum - I teach minimus to year 7 and run a minimus club - good recommendation on the resources!

gramercy · 21/01/2011 21:13

ooh yes please! Must admit, though, no idea how you pm! Please advise!

gramercy · 21/01/2011 21:29

Ah, managed to pm you, jetgirl. There was a nice, idiot-proof guide at the top of the page.

ZZZenAgain · 22/01/2011 11:36

how old is he gramercy?

OP posts:
gramercy · 22/01/2011 14:26

He's 12.

Hatterbox · 22/01/2011 15:28

It's great to see other supporters of classic education on here.

I studied Latin and Greek at GCSE and A-Level, and then read Classics at university, and it is essential to me that my children have the opportunity to study the classics.

I went to a prep school that introduced French at Year 3, and I didn't struggle with it, but I didn't enjoy it that much. However, when we started Latin in Year 5 and starting to understand the fundamentals of language, I began to love French (as well as German and Spanish, which were also introduced in Year 5).

I believe that having Latin in more state schools would enhance the teaching of modern languages, as it provides the necessary skills to understand and appreciate language.

MillyR · 22/01/2011 15:35

Thanks for that information, Jetgirl. DS is doing the CLC but I didn't realise there was an additional grammar book. I've looked it up online and it is £11.50, which seems reasonable.

joe80 · 13/11/2013 21:19

Are there any mummies whose children do ancient greek at school?

Ladymuck · 13/11/2013 21:46

The mummies were from Ancient Egypt I thought;)
But yes, several of the local schools offer Ancient Greek. I have one dc studying it.

Bearleigh · 13/11/2013 21:55

I am another mummy with a child studying Ancient Greek (as well as Latin). He is 14 and loves them both.

I did Latin O Level, but did a strange syllabus that was a tester for GCSEs, so we were given the vocab that we needed. As a result I never had to learn any vocab, so cannot now remember any Latin beyond the basics. What a waste...

mathanxiety · 17/11/2013 06:43

I learned all my grammar by doing Irish all through school. The only other language where I learned grammar in a systematic fashion was German, but it didn't expose me to all the ins and outs that Irish did. I agree that Latin (or Greek for that matter) would have provided a chance to teach grammar thoroughly too, but doing Irish provided that foundation. It gave me the tools I needed to get to grips with other languages later (a point Tinuviel made wrt Latin). This was also the experience of an uncle of mine, who did Irish all through school and learned French pretty easily much later for professional reasons.

The DDs have so far opted for French in high school, after wasting years doing Spanish in elementary school (in the US). Their choices there were French, Spanish, Italian, German, Japanese or Mandarin. DS took Latin mainly because he didn't have to speak but could rather focus on grammar, translation, vocabulary and historical and cultural context, and he loved it. All the DCs ended up with a solid grasp of grammar thanks to English class in school in the US, beginning at around 3rd grade (age 8ish) and continuing through high school, so the deficiencies of the elementary Spanish curriculum didn't bother me too much. Because of the way American bachelors degrees are structured, DS will take another year of Latin before he graduates, as proficiency in a language is necessary. If he ends up doing medicine then Latin may even be useful to some extent in pharmacy and anatomy. ExH did his BA in Latin with Ancient Greek as a minor, in an American university.

If Classics (and I include Irish as a classical language since literature in Irish is almost as old as Latin and Greek literature) are taught properly I think they can go far to help decode modern visual culture and certainly modern literature and drama. DS found his high school Latin helped enormously in some of his liberal arts core courses (the American system requires more of an all-round education even for those on science tracks). Many of the themes we find cropping up again and again come straight from the classical imagination.

I have the impression that the British take on education is quite utilitarian as opposed to other European countries that I know about from personal experience where being well-versed in liberal subjects is a sign of being a generally well-educated person and it is not all a matter of "what job do you want to do?" which seems to be the main interest of parents in the UK. I do agree that education will need to prepare dc for the world of work but that is not the only role of education IMO. Actually I think this is the main reason that so many traditional subjects have fallen by the wayside which is not the case in other countries.
I agree with you OP, and I think the American system values the liberal education just as much as other European countries (outside of the UK) do. Education should produce flexible minds that are capable of making connections among many different areas; I think what the British system does is produce very inflexible minds that do not adapt and that can't draw on a wide knowledge from a broad range of disciplines because of the early specialisation of the A level system. The world of work and innovation requires cross fertilisation of ideas and multi-cultural fluency.

rabbitstew · 21/11/2013 09:24

The best use of Latin I've ever seen is my father happily conversing with Italians when on holiday in Italy by combining his understanding of Latin and French to come up with a new language that was clearly sufficiently close to Italian for people to understand him. I have no idea where they thought he came from! Grin

vixsatis · 21/11/2013 09:34

Latin and Greek are also useful if one goes on to read a subject at university in which reference is made to original sources. It is, for instance, always useful to have languages for history, politics, philosophy and Greek and Latin are good for theology as well.

Anotherdayanotherdestiny123 · 21/11/2013 09:38

I genuinely don't get the obsession on MN with Latin, it's not something I have ever heard mentioned in real life and genuinely doesn't even feature on my radar of things my children need to learn. I went to one of the top private schools in the country and did one year of Latin in year 8. About 15 people out of 120 went on to study it at GCSE, it wasn't offered at A Level and there was no Greek option at all. I remember it as being deathly boring and would far prefer decent modern language teaching in something they will actually use in the future. I am from a family of lawyers and medics and not one of them have studied any Latin beyond a a year at most.

grovel · 21/11/2013 09:47

The great advantage of a classical education is that it enables you in later life to despise the riches which it prevents you from attaining.

rabbitstew · 21/11/2013 10:50

I don't think Latin is something anyone NEEDS to learn - certainly not for a law or medicine. I think, taught well, however, it can be enjoyable, and make visits to historical monuments, art galleries, museums, etc, much more interesting, as Latin inscriptions pop up all over the place.

I remember a fascinating exhibition at the Sainsbury Wing of the National Gallery, the central painting of which was Holbein's The Ambassadors. It was a revelation to me quite how much meaning can be hidden inside one painting if you understand the history, politics and cultural references. I think, given the huge importance of Latin in Europe for so many centuries, that Latin, taught well, can help deepen our understanding of, and interest in, not just of a dead language and the times of the Roman Empire, but also our own more recent history and culture. I think, however, it is still a subject which inspires controversy because of its rather ridiculous status as an essential subject in the past, which was conveniently used to deny perfectly capable people from access to things for which the knowledge of Latin was not actually necessary.

rabbitstew · 21/11/2013 10:53

(ps I'm not saying Latin had anything to do with the Holbein painting, it was just an example of how sometimes it is just nice to increase your knowledge of things which are not directly relevant or useful, because they can increase your appreciation of the world around you.)

Swipe left for the next trending thread