My child is naughty at school

[RedSuedeShoes]

Don't know if this is the right place to post this but I am pretty stressed and would like to hear from anyone with a similar problem.

My son is bright, sporty and musical and on the face of it has a lot going for him, in terms of within a school environment. He is strong in all subjects including art and drama. But he is naughty and disorganised. He is always trying to play pranks and is very rude to teachers; rolls his eyes at them and answers back all the time. He is not bored as he is being stretched and is kept busy. My other children are very complient and well behaved and as a family we are very hot on manners and respect.

This behaviour is causing problems and many good things are being taken away from him. He has always had these problems wherever he has been. The first term at a school he is good and then he gets cocky. We've had him tested for Aspergers but it came back as inconclusive. He can be mean to others - not bullying - but will tell them if their work was rubbish, they look fat etc and then continue playing with them as if he said nothing.

I don't know what to do and am feeling very low. If it is a self esteem issue then the sanctions he is being given will only make it worse but he doesn't seem to react to sanctions.

Help :(

Could he have oppositional defience disorder? How old was he when he had the aspergers assessment - could it be more conclusive now he is older?

If he doesn't have a desire to please his parents I should imagine it's very difficult to get him to do anything he doens't want to and it is rare for dc to not have this inbuilt IYSWIM

Thank you all for being so supportive, informative and kind.

I don't know if he has ODD Cargirl but he certainly acts as if he does - off to google!

I'm sorting out a meeting but any more strategies that I can suggest would be helpful for me to take along. :)

ODD-I haven't heard of that. I might look it up and see if it applies to my little treasure.

Have you found any sanction anywhere that works/motivates him?

There's a book that's been recommended time and time again "the unwritten rules of friendship" I think it's like a workbook and teaches dc about what you and don't do to "friends" - may improve his popularity/acceptance if he stops saying truths like "you're fat".

Honestly it sounds like a nightmare for you

Just looked it up, it dosn't apply to her.

It is a nightmare because not only do I feel for his longterm happiness I know that as a mum I am judged on my son's behaviour as if it must be all my fault!

He is displaying some ODD tendencies but not all and in a mild way. This is the problem. He is not right in some way which causes lots of problems but it is so mild that no one can put their finger on what it is so they say he has nothing wrong with him.

I had one of my dc treated for neuro developmental delay. Amongst other SENs it can help with autism and aspergers so perhaps it's worth considering that? There is a questionnaire which will help you decide whether it's worth pursuing at all or not.

Here

www.inpp.org.uk/questions/index.php

There are a few different bodies that train prationers and offer treatment, INPP is just one of them - I just think it's quite a good website to look into it.

There is an ongoing thread about odd in special needs-Leningrad is on it a lot. It's quite important to establish if it is that (though from his reasonable behaviour at home I suspect it's not) because it needs different handling from something like as-eg reminding of routine good for as but induces extreme anxiety in odd.

Dh and I do handle school very carefully. I go to all meetings with a big list. Everytime I talk about something negative at school I must write something positive or say we have same issues at home and are trying whatever-I promote the 'we're in this together' attitude with school. Anything they agree to I keep a record of(particulary the date they expect to do it by) and then dh plays bad cop and rings up asking why it's not happened yet.
I would go in with the 'I absolutely su[port your use of sanctions with this appalling behaviour'I would then go on to say I'm really concerned and embarassed that it's still happening and that you are finding sanctions ineffective at home too. Then I would say that I thought the root of ds's problems were with his inability to learn social rules and this is what you're trying to do to help him....
I would then say you're trying social stories, role playing positive communication and so on.

I would then say that some of this would really benefit from having fellow students and teachers to work with in doing this as it's all about how he gets on with people and you were hoping they could do something along the lines of.... (insert whatever you think might be worth trying)

This may not work, but it's what I'd try first.

I would second having another go at dx-ime a label is a very good thing.
You could go nhs gp-paed route or you could try private.

My ds has really benfitted from extra curric stuff with understanding leaders such as his incusive football club (no competition) and his swimming lessons. As I said to his swimming teacher tonight 'it's as much about him learning to do what everyone else does/fitting in as it is about improving his back stroke'

I beg your pardon red shoes. If you know that there really is something wrong then you are best to know and seek advice accordingly, but your OP simply described a typical 10 year old know it all.
My nephew was suspected of aspergers and then eventually it was diagnosed as oppositional defiance disorder. He had/has a statement of SN and a TA attached to him.
Now that he is older he is better, my sister and bil used to get very stressed about it.
I like my nephew very much and from a very young age he WAS both spoilt and neglected by my lovely well educated, well meaning sister and bil. Perhaps that is why he had no desire to please his parents? Or maybe he was only spoilt and neglected a fairly usual amount but had the disorder anyway? Who knows.
He is 14 now and an intelligent achieving young man with friends.
Does your son have any responsibilities?

He may have ODD but that is not being spoilt if he does. My son is definitely not spoiled!

As for responsibilities he has the usual letting the dog out in the morning, getting the dog water, going to the local shop when I ask him too, cleaning his room etc. He is also a chorister so has a high level of responsibility as a public performer. He is currently not behaving there either!

Does he do the dog without being asked? If so that is very positive - he wants to please the dog.

Well he knows just to do it each morning or else!

Hi
I think you need to work out why things are happening. Does he say "you're fat", because the person is and he cant understand why he shouldnt say that if it is true or does he say it to get a rise out of them. If it is the former then he might benefit from some social skills training from someone who specialises in social communication disorders. If it is the latter it is different. What does he gain from that rise?? Does he like seeing someone else get into trouble???

How much control does he have over his life. Does he make some choices for himself?? Is he having a testosterone surge??

Another point. It might be worth uping the the attention he gets for just being himself. Not for being good at music or drama or whatever. So make a point of playing games with him, watching tv together, chatting and generally enjoying him so the way he gets most attention isnt by being told off. Children like/need any type of attention and will seek it out good or bad. When in a negitive cycle its easy to learn that being naughty is a great way to get attention, sub conciously (never could spell)

I'm definitely going to try and get him seen by an ed psych but one that deals with social training as so often they give an IQ/learning difficulties based test, tell you what's wrong and then leave you to sort it out.

chorister !!! Requires a massive level of discipline, compliance, attention and commitment. Blimey.