School not being forthcoming with vital information - do I perservere or take the Data Protection Act route?

[Vallhala]

I need the minutes of an illegal interview carried out upon my daughter by a school. (Not one she currently attends, if that makes a difference).

I asked for the minutes repeatedly last week but unsurprisingly have got nowhere. I'm beyond caring if I piss the school off, but need to know whether it might be quicker to continue to demand the minutes and cc my MP into each email until the school capitulates or whether I should just send a Data Protection subject access request. I'm concerned that if I send a DP request there may be procedures which the school will conveniently decide to go through or even need to take and that this will make access to the minutes take even longer.

Has anyone any idea of how schools handle a DP request please, so I can decide which is the best way forward?

Thank you.

"Forgive me for being stupid but what has the head of the school you want got to do with what your daughter will do at the PRU."

Oh Admission, I don't know, I really don't. It all beggars belief, doesn't it? :)

I'm really not inclined to attend any more meetings. As far as I'm concerned there is no need as all I require is a date upon which DD is to start at the school, and that's what I shall tell the Inclusion Manager.

Tsk! I really feel that this latest bright idea is barely worth dignifying with any answer.

Vallhala - Thank you for answering my question and good luck. Hopefully you and your DD get the result you deserve!

Sorry prh47, I started my reply to Admission's remarks ages ago and then left mid-sentence to sort the family out. In the meantime you came along and pretty much said all that I felt.

Thank you for the reassurance, both of you. Dealing with the LA has a nasty tendency to make me feel as if I'm in Opposite World and am slowly losing the plot. :)

Thank you DiscoDaisy, thats really nice of you. :)

Valhalla - Don't know if I am wildly off the mark etc, but I do feel for you and your dc's.

You have mentioned before that your dc has behavioural problems and has also been significantly bullied. Which came first? Did the behavioural difficulties at home get worse with the bullying?

Sorry don't want to be nosey; but if your Cambs have you heard/looked at Red Balloon as an option. LA's fund the majority of placements
www.redballoonlearner.co.uk/about.htm

Minx, I have heard of Red Balloon and yes, the difficulties definitely worsened with the bullying. I always understood that the chance of an LA funding a place at Red Balloon was practically zero, which is why I have never considered it further, Certainly it's out of my financial reach.

I fear that the LA would be even more loathe to fund a place there for my DD than most, given their animosity towards me and that if I stood a chance at all I'd have the mother of all fights to prove it but I'm going to do some research now, thanks to you.

I've been following this thread (and previous ones :))

I would turn the PRU idea round on the LA & say the PRU is not acceptable/practical due to DD's fragile emotional state, previous bullying etc HOWEVER you would consider a short spell at the Red Balloon to help DD prepare for reintegration back into mainstream school AND to help her catch up on the 3 months of education she has missed due to the ineptitude of the LA...

I know that the law is on your side for your DD to be admitted to school like yesterday, but I was just thinking that it could be a win-win:

1. School head is happy as he doesn't have to "back down" as your DD will be "helped to reintegrate"
2. LA will be happy if they can get you off their back (and LGO too)
3. (Most importantly) Your DD will get some 1-2-1 help to catch up on what she has missed and some help to regain her confidence to go to school, which I'm sure must have taken a beating with this debacle.

It's been a busy day here Betsy, so I've not had much chance to do any investigating but you may have a point there.

I still can't see my LA going for it, not because I think you ladies are wrong or that it wouldn't be a very good, workable solution to many of the problems for DD, long-term and short-term, but because I think the LA are going to be very loathe to spend a dime or cooperate. However, I'm going to check it out and speak with the Heads of Red Balloon to see what they say. Thank you.

I've been thinking about the latest offer too. I'm wondering whether the LA and school are so anxious to get a reply from me asap in order that they can either

A. Get me to agree to their suggestion so they can palm DD off into a PRU with no guarantee of how long she'll have to remain there barring the Head's anticipated 6 months minimum nor any guarantee of a place in any mainstream school at the end of it or...

B. Get me to formally reject the idea. That way the LA can say they have no option but to direct the school to take DD. The school will then have 15 days to decide to appeal that direction and if they decide to appeal within less than that time the case moves forward even faster. This would be far quicker than an LGO investigation, which I am told can take around 3 months, and would therefore pre-empt and thwart any direction on the part of the Ombudsman... which would suit the school and LA just fine.

My stance remains that there is no need for direction and thus no right of appeal as the offer has already been made and as objection could only possibly be as a result of an illegal interview. So, I'm quite prepared to wait to see what the LGO decides. I'm certainly not accepting the PRU but am not sure if it's entirely in my interest to tell the LA that with any great haste.

I'm wondering what Admission thinks of this theory of mine... or am I being paranoid?

I think that you might be getting a bit paranoid in stance B but stance A is I suspect not a 100 miles from their thoughts.

Betsyboop's suggestion is actually also quite neat in that it just might give the LA a minor heart attack over the fees at Red Balloon. If they recognise that you are not going anywhere near the PRU then they may just think that getting you into the mainstream school is the easiest and cheapest option. It does also show that you are willing to compromise (well at least a little bit)

:o

Thanks Admission. I'm GLAD I'm being paranoid, as I'm sure you'll understand. Thank you for putting me right. :)

I think the Red Balloon idea falls down a little insofar as it was the School which would bear the cost of the PRU and not the LA. Red Balloon, if I'm not mistaken, costs about £18K PA, more expensive even than the cost of putting a pupil in a PRU for 12 months. As the LA wouldn't have to fund a PRU place they won't see any advantages to funding one at Red Balloon except those to my 13 year old daughter of course, but she doesn't appear to matter to the LA!

(TBH I nearly had a minor heart attack over the fees to Red Balloon!).

Red Balloon fees are expensive but they do some amazing stuff with the kids they take in.

I remember reading around their work a couple of years ago and they do provide a sanctuary for the children they take in. They earn their fees.

What remined me of them was watching a programme on tele last week on BBC3 re Bullying; you may still be able to get it 'on demand'.

I'm sure they do earn their fees, Minx, having seen a little of the media stuff on them. Sadly it's not a "won't pay" in my case but a "can't pay". At the risk of starting a huge state vs private argument, if I could afford independent school fees none of this would have happened in the first place as there would be no way my DC would have ever gone to state school. That's how much of a "can't" it is rather than a "won't"!

RB would be wonderful and make all the difference in the world to DD, I know that, but planting my feet back into reality all I can hope for is for her to be safe whilst she is gaining a reasonable education. The school I have been offered should be able to do that, a PRU certainly can't, so all I am asking for are basics really. To even mention Red Balloon to the LA makes me feel like I'm taking the pee, although I know what a difference it would make to her whole life and future.

I will mention it, as I owe DD that much, but I guess I'm trying to say that I'm not here to try and get advice on getting the best and most expensive for DD... just something safe and workable. Anything else would be a bonus.

PRUs are normally funded from the LA's budget, not the school's. I don't think the school will bear the cost of the PRU, except inasmuch as they won't receive any funding for your daughter in the next financial year if she isn't in the school in January.

I agree with Admission that they are hoping you will go for plan A. It seems obvious that the school don't want your daughter and are doing everything they can to stop her going there, helped by the LA completely failing to do their job.

I can't remember if I've said this already but the LGO generally moves quite quickly in school admissions cases. Whilst they always quote the standard 3 months, they often take much less. For example, I had to go to the LGO twice to get my youngest son into our local primary school. On both occasions they took around 1 month from referral to decision. I therefore hope you will have to wait much less than 3 months.

You say that mentioning Red Balloon feels like you are taking the pee. Bluntly, the LA and this school are taking the pee so go for it. If you don't ask you won't get. You may be right that you won't get anyway but you'll never know if you don't ask.

It's been some time since I returned here but finally I have news. As suggested I put in a formal request for funding for Red Balloon. On Monday I got an email from the Inclusion Officer where I was told to consider the PRU again whilst she extolled it's virtues and said that the LA would act wrt a start date at the mainstream school when I accepted the place for it. That'll be the place which I accepted in writing to her on 16th November and several times thereafter, will it? Jeez that Inclusion Manager is beyond belief!

As to Red Balloon, the LA no longer are responsible for funding for any form of EOTAS, the individual schools are, and so the request had been passed to the Head of the mainstream school which has caused the difficulty in the first place.

The Inclusion Manager's suggestion that I sent DD to the PRU made me so cross that I was at a loss as to how to respond. So, I didn't! I just sat back and waited for her to accept that it just wasn't going to happen.

Then on Wednesday I got another email, from someone else...

... Red Balloon's controller, saying that their Education Director (an ex LA EOTAS officer) had been in touch with the mainstream school, who appeared to have made a verbal offer to fund DD's education at Red Balloon for a short while!

So yesterday DD and I met the pupils and staff at our local Red Balloon School including, by chance, the school's founder. We left with a reassurance that Red Balloon thought they could help DD... that just left the small matter of £6K per term. I'd emailed the LA's Inclusion Manager to ask for confirmation of the offer on Wednesday afternoon, but of course there I got no reply. Well, not until I emailed her Executive Director this afternoon, asking for him to ensure that I received an answer today as after all he had assured my MP and I that DD's case would be the "highest priority". :o

Clearly my reminder worked because very soon after I received an email. I learned that the school will fund two terms at Red Balloon where DD will get support in overcoming the bullying she experienced and will be taught skills to deal with it which don't involve being aggressive or abusive in return, in an environment where respect and good behaviour is expected, taught and demonstrated, together with 1 to 1 coaching to help her catch up on the nearly 4 months of school education she has missed thanks to the LA's cockups in order that she may return to mainstream at the chosen school for the start of year 10 in September.

Admission, pr47bridge, Minx179, everyone who has offered advice and support, THANK YOU SO VERY, VERY MUCH.

I'm typing this with tears running down my face. Thanks to you, for the first time we might be able to get to the bottom of DD's fears and problems and help her find the skills to deal with the situations she currently finds so difficult. At last she has a chance.

Without your invaluable advice and support I honestly think that my daughter's future would have been very, very bleak.

THANK YOU.

Val x

My goodness, what a result!
I am amazed that the school is funding Red Balloon, but who cares as long as your daughter gets the opportunity to gain from it.

Result! Excellent news. I am really happy for you and your daughter.

What a brilliant result. Well done for fighting to the end!

All thanks to you Ladies. I have to admit, I've suddenly realised how exhausted I am. I could sleep for a week!

Congratulations! The best bit of good news I have read for ages.

Have been following your threads and I am so pleased that you have finally got the right result.

Wow, Vallhala that is fantastic news. I am so pleased for you and your dd. I may have shed a tear or two when I read your post!

Vallhala is very well known to anyone that frequents the doggy boards, but I know that if you do not have a dog, you may not be aware of her work. She is an independent dog rescuer, and she works tirelessly to save dogs from death row in pounds up and down the country, and beyond. She cannot always succeed but that does not stop her from trying again and again and again. She never gives up on a dog.

It breaks my heart when the authorities give up on a child in the school system. It made me angry that they seemed happy to give up on Val's dd (or anyone else's of course).

If there were more Vallhala's in education, then less children would slip between the cracks of the system.

Am speaking about LA's and management (not a dig at teachers), in case my comments are misunderstood.

Aww... thank you Madsometimes.

A bit of additional info, for anyone who may sadly be in any similar sort of position...

I forgot, in my exhaustion and relief, to tell you all that the support we have had from Red Balloon itself has been exceptional. My initial call, to run the situation by them and to ask if they A. might consider taking DD and B. thought I had a hope in hell of funding from the LA, led to the Founder of RB calling me up to help and advise. She did this more than once and I learned that in the past couple of weeks RB have had approaches from 5 kids like DD and could fill several schools if there were funding available. :(

Our visit to RB was a revelation. The inarticulate, edgy, nervous, unhappily pressured child who came over so badly during the interview at the mainstream school blossomed into the coherent, expressive child I know her to be at the meeting at Red Balloon, no longer wary and uneasy but confident and relaxed. The atmosphere was one of total calm and the expectations of respect and manners are demonstrated by staff as much as pupils. DD2 wants to go there, she wants to succeed and she wants to enjoy school... and I really think that she is going to learn how to here.

If anyone's child is experiencing similar problems as a result of bullying I would urge you to speak to Red Balloon or a similar organisation and that you fight for funding from your LA/responsible school if needed. I didn't for one moment think that I stood a chance of a successful outcome, but here I am. I am damn sure that Red Balloon will give you all the help and understanding that they can.

Again, thank you all - I honestly couldn't have done it without you.

Val x

that is just brilliant news :)

Congrats, Vallhala. I'm really pleased for you and your DD - hopefully she'll get a lot out of RB and then settle into her new school.

Well done you for not letting the LA let her down.