IQ predicted by parents white collar or blue collar job

[NorhamGardens]

I had to have one of mine assessed by an educational psychologist.

In passing we discussed DC's school, he used to work directly for the school.

He said with absolute conviction that a blue collar parent/s were likely to have a child with a much lower IQ and a white collar parent/s a child with a much higher IQ.

It made me wonder how many other professionals in similar fields have similar ideas?

I was very surprised. Surely this is classist and hasn't the 'thinking' behind IQ evolved anyway?

IQ tests have been widely discredited as a measure of some kind of innate intelligence, you can learn to improve your score in the same way you can learn to do better in any test. The correlation probably is a reflection of the wider phenomenon that kids from poorer backgrounds perform less well academically than kids from better off backgrounds and this is due to a huge range of factors for example the experiences available to them when they are very small. To try and link adult outcomes with some sort of genetic predisposition is simplistic and quite dangerous.

Michael Gove is right, sadly. Google the Marmot Review for more details.

IQ is not heritable in a genetic sense. Regression to the mean applies. However, the not-so bright children of better families will have a better education and the sort of experience and culture that makes them better at passing IQ tests (e.g. the verbal reasoning part of IQ tests depends on you having a wide vocabulary - however bright you are, you will be marked down if you've never heard of X word).

Reading through again I find it interesting that people seem to talk about "fathers" a lot. And cleaning is cited as a "low IQ" job when in fact it is a job generally done by young people getting started out, and women. The reasons for that are to do with society, not because women are thick.

Also interesting the talk about "blue collar" and "white collar" jobs - when in fact there is very little "blue collar" ie manual unskilled work out there. OTOH a lot of manual jobs involve a lot of intelligence and education, while a lot of office jobs ie white collar are not very intellectually stretching.

Reading the thread it seems like a pseudoscientific excuse for the age old patriarchal question: "So...... What does your father do?"

"The problem is that people don't understand the difference between something being true on average and something being true for an individual."

I think that people understand perfectly, they just totally disagree.

I think an inheritance of IQ would make sense, although I am not sure of the validity of IQ tests. I would imagine that people with a high IQ would promote education at home and perhap be able to fund the kind of lifestyle that would enable children to succeed. So a mixture of nature and nurture.

I don't think your life is mapped out from birth, my parents had drug problems, in and out of prison, children taken into care and poverty - but I managed to do well in life. Interestingly if you look at my family history there are one or two of every few generations who make it and we have a few "mad genius" types - I suspect I am the former rather than the latter.

From what I have seen socially Dr's marry Dr's, very rarely do they marry a nurse but even then you don't get many nurses with low IQ's these days.
I have never known a Dr marry a porter or even a shop assistant ever.

I'm sure I read that the greatest indication of a child's success in school life is the mothers highest educational level.
If the mother has a degree but the father doesn't it's more likely that the child will go to University than the other way round.

I agree about cleaning ISNT, I am an Oxbridge graduate who has often had to clean to make a living. Infact I still do he odd cleaning job.

Both my husbands have had lower IQs than me, my child is very bright. My first husband was not that bright but earned a six figure salary when I was on about £30K

Yes I thought I had heard that somewhere as well mamatomany.

Oh you are joking Kerry the stupidest of Dr's I know lack common sense but they are far from thick, academically at least, you cannot buy A* A levels, or if you can could you point me in the right direction please ?

Whilst I believe that the statement is probably more or less true on average (for a variety of reasons, including the ones cakeandcustard put forward). I agree with the OP that it's a worrying thing to hear from this professional - you don't want him to have it in his mind when he deals with individual children for which this rule of thumb is completely irrelevant.
It's probably true that males are
better at 3d imaging than
females on average, but I don't want to hear DDs woodwork teacher saying that.

If you take A'level grades to be a marker then I'd agree, my grades are very high and don't reflect my IQ which I think is average or a tiny smidgeon above.

Could I have qualified as a doctor? Yes I think so, if I had been so inclined.

I am dogged, determined, hard working and resilient.

I always think it's a shame that 11 plus exams don't 'test' for resilience, industriousness and tenacity. These are perhaps just as strong markers for future 'success' as inherent intelligence.

I know lots of doctors and medics and while some may lack common sense none are thick

Apparently last year in England (not sure if just England or UK as a whole) there were 17 applicants for every place to read medicine - so do you think applicants' parents know where to send their cheques? Or do you mean 'bought' in the more general sense of children who've been to private school have had the likelihood of doing well in A-levels and therefore getting one of those coveted places bought for them?

Averages are interesting but don't predict individual results or outcomes. That's why all these August-born threads where people say "My child was born in August but is a genius" are missing the point.

Correlation does not imply causation, anyway.

mamatomany are you serious? I can easily point you in the direction of schools which will pretty much guarantee those grades, given a student who is hardworking and not completely dim.

I think a lot of people on this thread are a bit deluded about what money and opportunity buys you. The men running the country all went to Eton didn't they? They're all very rich... Surely no-one would argue that the reason they are where they are is because they are intrinsically better than everybody else

Re the doctor thing. Turn it around. People are willing to say that all doctors must be very bright (rather than average and pushed etc). If you think so. Is anyone willing to say that all cleaners are stupid?

Imagine two classmates of the same innate ability.

When one child goes home she is welcomed, fed, has a conversation with her parents and is supervised while she does her homework. At the end of the day, she watches a film or reads with her parents, climbs into a clean bed and sleeps soundly.

The other child goes to a home with no proper furniture, her mother is passed out, the baby's crying and the electricity has run out. She deals with all this. Then she's yelled at and beaten, before going to sleep in a cold and dirty room. She does her homework on the school steps in the morning.

Those are true stories, happening every day all over the country - have the two kids really got equal opportunities?

"People do not only breed with others of the same intelligence" No, but I think broadly speaking most people tend to end up with someone who has roughly the sme IQ level as themselves. It's part of what makes you compatible with each other.

ISNT - please do point me in the direction of those schools i don't want to be wasting my time studying if i can just buy them, oh but you said the student has to be hardworking so maybe that's the answer then you can achieve more if you put the effort in, imagine that.

Same IQ, or same job/background, boosilla?

Same IQ, or same job/background, boosilla?

'bought' in the more general sense of children who've been to private school have had the likelihood of doing well in A-levels and therefore getting one of those coveted places bought for them?

And yet on every private v's state thread i've seen it ends with the conclusion that a bright child will do well where ever they go. Which i personally think is bollox.

ISNT, agreed.

Let me tell you about someone I know. A trial of one but probably not an isolated example.

I know a girl who is studying currently for GCSEs and has secured A*s for two so far. She's probably below average academically, that's the first thing to mention.

She's one of four and incredibly committed and hard working as are all the children in the family.

The Mum doesn't work and is 100% committed to her children's education. They have a tutor that comes to the house every night. The tutor spends time with the child that needs her most that evening and arrives about 5pm and leaves around 10pm.

The tutor has been with them many years and she is absolutely excellent. Truly inspirational, gets the children to perform to their utmost potential and is incredibly inspiring. She's fun and thinks and prepares beforehand about how she can inspire these children.

The tutor knows these children inside out, and works on their weaknesses.

The mother does all she can to ease the pressure at school for her children, calling to reschedule exams or try to get extra time or the best teacher in a different set if possible. She is dogged and persuasive.

mamatomany I don't see why you are being shirty. Schools which gain excellent results (results-wise) for their students are widely publicised - most are in the private sector and some are in the public sector. Most are selective - so what you need is a similarly successful primary school, again which ones these are is no secret. Add hard work / pushing and some tutors and bobs your uncle.

Is this really news to people?

Of course you achieve more if you are hardworking, that's self-evident surely. But hard work is not linked to IQ.

Personally I think, looking at these doctors everyone is so keen on, that you will find people are are reasonably bright but very hardworking and driven. Same as at the top of most jobs. Plenty of very very bright people do not have those attributes and do not end up in well paid jobs.

I am finding this thread very odd TBH.