Coping with Teacher Training days

[bacon]

I'm new to education, DS1 in reception DS2 19 months old. But this is really going to get right up my nose. Teacher training days tagged onto half terms. 1st one Friday just before the weeks break.

How do mums cope? Ive got something planned - booked months and months ago and have to leave really early and now just checked diary and DS1 is home and I'm paying for DS2 to be in nursery!

Why cant they do these training days in the evenings or even Saturday morning like the rest of us? Why has education have to be so disrupted? Surely with the number of weeks off they get it wouldnt be too much to expect a few days to be put towards training?

Struth, we are self employed here, hubby never hardly gets time off, when we were farming we worked well unto the night, expected to get up at the crack of dawn, 7 days a week, working when completely exhausted and so hanging and no paid holidays!

So many families are struggling with childcare, trying to hold onto their jobs, and then this is slapped in our faces.

Surely this doesnt happen on the continent??

'As long as YOUR childcare issues are sorted with minimum effort. '

What a very strange accusation. In fact, it's me who has been arguing that better out of school provision across the whole country would benefit ALL the parents who might need it.

Absolutely beyond me how this can possibly be interpreted as a selfish viewpoint.

elective posting again

mrz Thu 28-Oct-10 09:49:53

fivecandles Thu 28-Oct-10 09:09:03 My dcs' school also makes use of sixth formers to help out with before school club and during holiday club when it's busy the nursery nurses earn extra money by helping out. So they've got it sussed except for the INSET days.

sixth formers of course can't be counted in the adult ratio as I'm sure you know

'Fivecandles : And for the millionth time, it would make no difference to parents who provides the service as long as the service is provided.

AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH

So why can't they organise something themselves'

I don't think parents can make decisions about what goes on in schools. They can make suggestions which is what they are doing and they can offer to help.

I do think you're rather missing the point which is that the parents who would most need out of school provision HAVE JOBS which is why they need the out of school care.

Whereas there are other people whose job it is or might be to provide out of school provision.

'WHY do you think that it is the school's responsibility to organise holiday care'

Well, I have said a million times that if the school doesn't want to do it themselves then the LEA could do it or employ an agency.

What I find strange is the idea that a school wouldn't take an interest in such a scheme if there parents wanted it.

As a teacher I would be very pleased to know that children were being well cared for on INSET days. As I have said, stressed parents make for stressed children. Badly cared for children make for trouble in school.

Why wouldn't schools want to be involved in at least arranging if not managing such a scheme in the same way that most arrange and/ or manage holiday clubs and breakfast clubs.

I'm really failing to understand why some of you see there being such a difference in principle between holiday clubs and INSET days.

And I'm failing to get this jobsworth attitude which seems to say that schools and teachers should only do exactly what's on their job description on no more. It makes me quite ashamed of my profession and it's not an attitude that I or my colleagues share thank God.

In fact, most schools and teachers that I know go to great lengths to support their children and their parents and the wider community as a whole. The amount they do for charity for example. Yet, some of you are suggesting that this is too much? That it's too much even to employ an agency to provide such a service? Why?

'... If the school/LA chose to ... fine BUT if they choose not to ... also fine'

Well, fine for who exactly?

Not really fine for those parents who have no adequate care for their children during INSET is it?

'When people refer to your irresponsible attitude it is because you think, for some reason, that you are not responsible for sorting out childcare in the holidays'

Now I really do object to this one and I think we need to knock it on the head right now.

Parents who use childcare provided at or by the school are still sorting out (and paying for) childcare just as you sort out and pay for childcare when you use a nursery or childminder.

How can you possibly suggest that it is less responsible to use or wish to use a properly managed out of school provision than it is to use a childmidner, or friend or sixth former or mad grandma.

That's just not a logical position at all. And it is offensive and absurd to suggest that wanting good quality childcare is in some way shirking responsibility.

'... if you realised that you were responsible for your children out of school hours you would not be continuing with this argument'

As I have said it is a sign or my RESPONSBILITY as a parent that I want my children but also EVERYBODY ELSE'S children to be well cared for during INSET days.

And more negativity. 'sixth formers of course can't be counted in the adult ratio as I'm sure you know'

Which they're not but it's valuable experience for them to put on their UCAS forms and for the kids who love them.

Is it your mission just to pour water on every good idea mrz? Do you not wonder why you want to do that because you really are coming across as negative and hostile.

you haven't addressed the question of inset provision where you work- are you nagging your HT to provide it for the benefit of the working parents of your students? Bit hypocritical if not. Oh and btw, i can just IMAGINE your reaction if provision was made at your dcs school and other parents got in first and took all the places.

'Fivecandles - as I said earlier, I am on the management committee for our out of school club. We identified a need (ours!!) and set something up to meet it. It isn't easy, but it solves our after school care problem. I can only suggest that you do the same. A parent (including you)-managed club has not been included in any of your suggestions for solving the issue, which have essentially consisted someone else sorting it out for you.'

I don't think that's fair at all. I have suggested volunteers but I have said many times that most parents wouldn't care who provided the service (which could include themselves) as long as there was a service.

I also said I don't know how many decades agao that I personally would be willing to volunteer e.g. for a day during holidays in return for my children being cared for during INSET.

However, this isn't particular relevant to my own dcs' school given that they already have employees who run and staff out of school provision. I would imagine they will be glad of the extra hours.

In the current climate it would be my personal preference to employ people to do important jobs but obviously a parent managed system would be great if it could be organised.

of course not fivecandles I just wouldn't want you to be condoning anything illegal.
It all gets very complicated when school pupils offer to help because it means more adults are required to supervise them

EvilTwins, you really do make a lot of assumpitons. It seems in order to be hostile and negative. You might want to ask yourself why you are doing that?

I work at 6th form level which I have already said. Therefore it's not an issue for us. In fact we have INSET days when the students are on study leave anyway.

So no hypocrisy here.

I don't do the club myself fivecandles. That would defeat the object. We manage it. We employ people, and they look after our children. You should look into it.

'i can just IMAGINE your reaction if provision was made at your dcs school and other parents got in first and took all the places.'

Bizarre and really unnecessary.

No doubt if other kids got in first I would continue to do what I'm already doing. I believe very strongly in fairness and cooperation so I would be very pleased that a service was in operation and look to see how it could be extended to accommoate ALL of the parents who would benefit from it.. I would have thought you would have understood that by now.

'You should look into it.'

Perhaps you missed the occasions when I said I plan on talking to my school about it.

As I say they already employ people to manage out of school provision so for them it would just be a question of extending the hours of their current employees.

It is independent of school. Which might be why I missed it. I thought you were talking about asking the school to extend their own provision (which is certainly the obvious first step!), rather than suggesting renting a space to provide your own.

What is independent?

Yes, I was planning on asking the school to extend their own provision to cover INSET days since they already do before and after school and holiday clubs.

Certainly wouldn't want to compete with this!

We run it. We are a charity. We are not part of the school. We rent a room from t he school. We are the employers, not the school. Obviously you don't want to compete with the school, and I am surprised TBH that you hadn't already asked them whether they could extend their provision to training days. As i said, way back when, we certainly did consider it, but it was not possible given our set up and our employees. IIRC you were extremely dismissive of that, whihc I found odd given that I know exactly what I'm talking about, because I have actuallu done it.

'Is it your mission just to pour water on every good idea mrz? Do you not wonder why you want to do that because you really are coming across as negative and hostile.

I fail to see how you are being negative and hostile if you just state facts!
I also suggested that you listened to TheFallenMadonna and sorted it with a committee, instead of just insisting they sort it.

Perhaps I should come clean and admit I was involved at the start of the whole Extended Schools programme when it was first introduced (at LA level not school level) so I'm very familiar with all the pitfalls when "fools rush in" to coin a phrase (I better make it clear I am in no way suggesting fivecandles is a fool before she gets offended).
But having sat through many meetings looking at pros and cons of various options I'm all to aware it isn't as straight forward as some might wish (including the last government)

In the eyes of the law, education is in fact the responsibility of the parents, not schools. No public system suits everyone. Am an ex-primary teacher, so I know what I'm talking about. It's a very difficult job, and I used to spend a great deal of the 'time off' ill. If you don't like the system in place, then home educate!

'IIRC you were extremely dismissive of that, whihc I found odd given that I know exactly what I'm talking about, because I have actuallu done it.'

I don't remember being dismissive of anybody's attempts to set up out of school provision.

If you have tried and failed, so be it.

I AM a little dismissive of those who have no need of out of school provision themselves but, for some reason, are against the idea in principle (seeing it, bizarrely, as some sort of abdication of parental responsibility) and put all sorts of obstacles in the way which are purely speculative.

'I fail to see how you are being negative and hostile if you just state facts!'

Oh come on. mrz was suggesting that my dcs' school are using 6th formers illegally. The assumption that my dcs' school are not aware of the legal requirements of looking after children is, at best, deeply patronising but coming on top of a barrage of negative and hostile comments from this particular poster, I can only see it as spitefully motivated.

There are some people who are clearly being critical and negative for the sake of it i.e the whole suggestion that I am being hypocritical by not setting up out of school provision in my own school, when in fact, I work in a 6th form where INSET days are carefully planned to coincide with students' study leave. Also, the offensive suggestion that I would expect my children to have priority over anybody else's.

If posters are interested in attacking my attitudes and personal circumstances, they could at least make sure they understand what these are.

'I also suggested that you listened to TheFallenMadonna and sorted it with a committee, instead of just insisting they sort it.'

Pisces, I have explained many times that my own dcs' school ALREADY employs people to provide an out of school service during holidays and before and after school.

It does not therefore seem unreasonable to expect those employees to 'sort it' given that is the job which they are paid to do.

I, however, am paid to do a different job which is why I need the out of school provision.

Sheesh!

mrz, I have already said that my dcs' school is paid for by PARENTS and not by the extended school budget. I don't know how it is funded elsewhere although I know the other parents who use holiday clubs and before and after school care provided by other schools and by the LEA also pay for this.

TBH I can really see how, as a result of a meeting where you are involved looking at the pros and the cons and the cons and the cons, nothing would actually be achieved.

I don't mean that rudely but really you have managed to come up with all sorts of strange obstacles and have had very little positive to say.

In fact, if I was a different sort of person I would have given up long ago in despair and probably be sitting somewhere in a heap in a corner whereas I intend to go into school next week to discuss it with them and I know that even if they were trying they couldn't begin to be as negative as some people on this thread.

I wonder what your school does to look after babies and toddlers when you hold early evening meetings, fivecandles?

'In the eyes of the law, education is in fact the responsibility of the parents, not schools'

I think that parents need to hang on to the responsibility and not give even more to the schools. Child care is a parent's responsibility and nothing to do with the school. (I didn't actually expect the school to have a creche when they had 5.30pm meetings-even though highly inconvenient to me).

I said that our playleaders were unable to cover training days. You said:

"To suggest that there wouldn't be the staff in this climate is ridiculous.

More problems, problems, problems.

Finding it increasingly bizarre actually."

Which I did find dismissive...

This is a silly argument. Schools will continue to have INSET days and parents will continue to have to cover them in the way that they cover holiday.OP seems to have long given up, but she will find that there are lots of things about schools and DCs that are inconvenient.