Thomas Telford, Parminters, Watford Grammar etc all non selective?

[Cortina]

Hi (sort of X posted on AIBU thread - apols). Wondered if people would more likely know here? Probably better place for the thread.

Thinking about GCSE results at the following non selective state schools:

Thomas Telford that got 46% A/A, Dame Alice Owen, 67% A/A, Parminters, 53% A/A, Watford Grammar for Girls 67% A/A, St Aidan's Harrogate, 59% A/A, Lady Margaret, 60% A/A, Hasmonean High, 55% A/A, King David High 55% A/A, JFS, Kenton, 50% A/A, Thomas Telford 98% A-C including English and maths, 46% A/A, Cardinal Vaughan, 57% A/A, St John the Baptist, Kingfield, 51% A/A, Camden for girls 44% A/A*.

These are impressive results for non selective comps! If so, although academic results not the be all and end all, they suggest that a move to the catchment for these schools wouldn't be a bad plan for many?

The only one of these I am familiar with is JFS Kenton which is selective on the basis of religion. I don't know the others but some of the names suggest they are also schools which select on the basis of religion

Don't know about the others but Parmiters is not non-selective, although I notice it calls itself a comprehensive in league tables. Nowadays they select 10% of new pupils by ability, but it used to be over 30%, and up to half of their official "non-selected" intake are the siblings of those who passed the entrance exam. In many cases, therefore, (although not all) one can assume that those younger siblings might also be academically able.
Think the same can be said for Watford Grammar.

My son goes to St John the Baptist in Woking and yes, the results are very impressive, also at A level. It is,however, a faith school so doesn't have a catchment area as such and therefore not easy to just move into the area in order to gain entry. Can't comment on the other schools but suspect that some of the others are also faith schools.

Yes, Watford Grammar select 30% iirc

Is a state faith school classed officially as a non selective comp? I guess so in that it doesn't discriminate as far as academic ability is concerned?

Do you have to take an exam to get into Parminters then? How does it work exactly that only 10% are selected via ability? (Apologies if I am missing something obvious).

Hmm so the top 'comps' in the country (in terms of academic results) are most likely faith schools or selecting partly on ability?

Parminters use the same admissions criteria as Watford. (10% aptitude, 25% academic ability) Have just checked website.

I thought that there was an entrance exam for Thomas Telford?

(There's no 'n' in Parmiters).

lol! I'm so careful normally...

To read the league tables fairly I think you need to know the type of school. VA schools (which probably cover most of this list) can set their own admissions criteria.

Thanks. Personally I prefer 'Parminters' gives it a minty feeling :).

Other top non selective comps are:

Coopers' Company and Coborn: 42% A/A*
Hockerill College, Bishops Stortford, 51% A/A*
Old Swinford Hospital, 41% A/A*
St George's, Harpenden, 40% A/A*
London Oratory, 46% A/A*
Arden, Knowle, 40% A/A*
Gordon's, Woking 44% A/A*
Hasmonean High, Hendon, 55% A/A*
Coloma Convent, 43% A/A*
St Edwards Coll, Sandfield Park, 45% A/A*
St Pauls RC Coll, 39% A/A*
Cardiff High 37% A/A*
Chellaston, Derby, 28% A/A*
Littleover Comm, Derby, 31% A/A*
Whitley Bay High, 28% A/A*
Graveney, Tooting, 45% A/A*
Herts and Essex High, 42% A/A*
Holt, Wokingham, 46% A/A*
Lady Manners, Bakewell, 41% A/A*
Newlands Girls', Maidenhead 30% A/A*
Pershore High, Worcs, 62% A/A*
St Philomena's, Carshalton, 46% A/A*
Waldegrave, Twickenham 50% A/A*
Theale Green, Reading 49% A/A*
Copthall, Mill Hill, 74% A/A*

I wonder how many are not VA in the top 30? When I've time perhaps I'll try and check...

Thomas TElfor is an academy sponsored by Tarmac.
They selec across all abilities but the top in each ability band.

Sixty, when you say they take the top in each ability band you mean they cream of the highest performers in the exam at top, average and bottom levels?

Hockerill takes 25% boarders selected by accompanying letter and need to board. The other 75% are local - siblings, feeder schools etc. But for some reason these are also asked for an accompanying letter.

Thomas Telford, going on memory (my sister went there). There is no exam but they had an interview, weeding out the pupils and parents who were prepared to do the work/support the pupils from those who would doss around. The "selective" part is 10% of the most able, 10% of the higher than average, 60% average, 10% of the lower than average and 10% of the least able.

So IMO it is selective, but selects from across the abilities, and also pulls out those who are willing to put in the effort from those who don't.

They also take from quite a wide area, although based in Telford, they take in from Wolverhampton and possibly Shrewsbury as well, so they take in from a far wider catchment then the rest of the local schools as well.

(I could say a lot about ethos, as well as the timetable and what-not, and I am sure my sister would add a lot more, but this isn't the thread. Let's just say I will not be putting my ds forward for a place)

Hocuspontas - what are you supposed to say/prove in the 'accompanying letter'?

LRB978 - what's interesting is that if anyone takes the academic league tables at face value they'd believe Thomas Telford was the best non selective comp in the UK.

iirc there is an exam for thomas telford, it is a v good school though!

From what I remember it was why you wanted your child to attend the school and what he or she would bring to it etc.

I see that at Thomas Telford two thirds take English and maths GCSEs aged 15. Also they are apparently offering degree courses for sixth formers from next year.

OSH, Gordons, Hockerill and St Georges are all state boarding schools.

OP : their 'catchment' is the whole of the UK so feel free to apply!

Alice Owen is partially selective too and though I don't know about the entry procedures for Camden School for girls it is and always has been a well known and academically very successful comprehensive.

Isn't the school day at Thomas Telford longer than usual, or am I mistaken?

Yeah, school day at Thomas Telford longer, will have to check with my sis the exact format though (I didnt go, wasn't young enough). She took GCSE English at 15, and AS eng lang at 16 (yr 11).

As for the best, that depends on what you are looking at. My sister left at 16, with extremely good results, because of bullying that had persisted throughout her time there. It was that bad she ended up with 5 years out of education (working in admin) before applying to uni and getting in on the basis of her exam results and post qualification experience, without having to do A Levels or an access course. As I say, despite living well within catchment there is no way my ds will be put forward for a place there.

Lady Margaret and Cardinal Vaughn are both faith schools and fierce competition to get in - securing the right number of points is a national sport round these parts (tho there is a lottery for a small number of non faith places at LM) No guarantee of place even if you live on the doorstep if baptised 'too late' etc and even sibling priority at LM is i think being phased out.

Secondary transfer in London is a law unto itself of course.

These results are also based on admissions procedures of 5 years ago, some of which have now changed. At that time, aspiring pupils for LM had to write a piece on how they felt they would benefit from the Christian ethos of the school! This is no longer required.