Thomas Telford, Parminters, Watford Grammar etc all non selective?

[Cortina]

Hi (sort of X posted on AIBU thread - apols). Wondered if people would more likely know here? Probably better place for the thread.

Thinking about GCSE results at the following non selective state schools:

Thomas Telford that got 46% A/A, Dame Alice Owen, 67% A/A, Parminters, 53% A/A, Watford Grammar for Girls 67% A/A, St Aidan's Harrogate, 59% A/A, Lady Margaret, 60% A/A, Hasmonean High, 55% A/A, King David High 55% A/A, JFS, Kenton, 50% A/A, Thomas Telford 98% A-C including English and maths, 46% A/A, Cardinal Vaughan, 57% A/A, St John the Baptist, Kingfield, 51% A/A, Camden for girls 44% A/A*.

These are impressive results for non selective comps! If so, although academic results not the be all and end all, they suggest that a move to the catchment for these schools wouldn't be a bad plan for many?

Cortina - Do you have secondary age children? I am guessing not. for you know nothing.

Loads of the schools on your list select. Trust me. I am a veteran of secondary transfer. My dh once suggested I set up a website to help other parents work out the process.

One interesting point is that a lot of the schools on your list have had to change their admissions procedure very recently. Prior to the big changes Ed Balls brought in, a lot of those schools had fascinating entrance criteria, of dazzling and Byzantine complexity. If you wanted your dc in, you had to get a whole range of stuff in place, from cubs and brownies, to musical accomplishments, to sports achievements, years before. And acquire certificates to prove it.

I look at those lists, and I see the schools housing the offspring of dedicated and organised parents; honed to a sleek and unitary purpose of acquiring entry in these schools.

Ah. I've seen your AIBU thread. Indeedy.

I kind of miss the world-of-admissions pre-Ed Balls. He changed things. I used to love swapping tales with other parents of the preposterous criteria of some schools. It is a lot more simple now, and fairer. The truly appalling interview is a thing of the past, for example.

When Thomas Telford first opened (one of the first CTCs) it claimed to be non-selective, and so my dad, who was involved somehow in trying to disprove this, made me apply for a sixth form place. I had to take an exam (it was aptitude tests rather than academic exam) and we were both interviewed, separately. I can't tell you if I got in, as Dad had to admit in the end that we were not serious candidates. However, he did manage to prove that they were interviewing and testing applicants - something they claimed that they were not going to do. This was in 1991, by the way.

A few years ago, TT started getting the "best results" in the area, but IIRC, this was very much influenced by the fact that the majority were doing BTECs rather than GCSEs.

The other thing to remember about TT is that it's in Telford. And as someone who grew up near Shrewsbury, I wouldn't move to Telford if you paid me (apologies to anyone who lives in Telford, of course - just the inbred snobbery coming out)

"The other thing to remember about TT is that it's in Telford. And as someone who grew up near Shrewsbury, I wouldn't move to Telford if you paid me (apologies to anyone who lives in Telford, of course - just the inbred snobbery coming out)"

actually i am offended by this. I grew up in much wenlock and have no such snobbery. not all of telford is rough, you cant tar all area's with the same brush and an awful lot of area's are undergoing regeneration. there are plenty of worse places, some in shrewsbury so less of the snobbery please

A would like to add a note of caution. From looking at your orignal list I noticed that a couple of the schools you listed are in Hertfordshire (Watford Girls and Parmiters spring to mind). Whilst it may be a good idea to move to an area for schools, you just need to be a bit wary about where you choose to move to as things are not as simple as they may first appear.

Hertfordshire is a "funny" county in that whilst it is not selective like say Kent, some of the best performing schools are, particularly those in and around Watford. The result is that Watford has a cluster of schools (Watford Boys, Watford Girls, Rickmansworth, Queens, Bushey Meads and Parmiters) that have what can only be described as operating a partial 11+ , but the rest of Hertfordshire in the main, does not. So whilst Watford is a nice town, the school choices are a nightmare at 11 (there is a lot of tutoring).

If you are really interested in the schools I would suggest that you look at www.elevenplusforum.co.uk which has a sticky on Hertfordshire schools, the "pass mark" for the selective school places and the historical distance you may need to live from the school to get a non-selective place. You can then look on Rightmove to see how much a house would cost.

I went to Thomas Telford (not LRB's sister, but anyway). I was in the first year group that got 100% A-C at GSCE, and believe me, it was from hard* work, not because we were doing BTECs instead

Also, while it was hard work, you did get the feeling you were constantly being prepped for exams. Take from that what you like, but there are pros and cons like with anything else.

Not everyone's cup of tea but I loved my time there. Yes they push you hard, but when you chuck the amount of money at education that they do, it's not surprising that the results are so high. Also, there's a really good learning ethos that even the dossers can't hide from, so everyone is pulling in the same direction.

lady - I knew I'd offend someone... But there was a big old Shrewsbury-Telford rivalry thing going on.

I went to school in Much Wenlock

ok, i forgive you

william brookes? we may have been in the same year!

Yes, William Brookes. I started in '86.

you were a couple of years above me then.

Apart from interviewing which weeds out the unsupportive parent, there are also schools, some of which are listed on this thread, that know how to manipulate the league tables

e.g. pupils who are never going to get 5 GCSEs are entered for GNVQ ICT, BTEC music etc which are 'worth' 4 GCSEs, so pupils only need to pass one other GCSE, or schools do early entry AS lit which massively boosts the point score. Although the data's been rejigged to include Maths & Eng, they are both going modular as from next yr so numerous retakes are possible.

Going OT, but Eviltwins, believe me, it's not was a big rivalry, there still is a big Telford-Shrewsbury thing going. I work for the NHS and spend time in both hospitals (PRH/RSH) during the week. You would not believe the issues some staff have with the fact it is now one trust, and the way they feel about the other site (and this applies to both sites). Equally I have friends in both towns, and the way some feel about the other town... well it's not worth listening to, never mind repeating.

Dancingthroughlife, which year did you start, and which tutor group were you in (just curious in case you know my sis)?

Whitley Bay High is non selective, it's just very good.

Yes, it appears in the list for comprehensive schools because it takes the full ability range. However it is also partially selective. Of 200 places, it selects 65 by academic ability and 10 by musical ability. Then, of course, there is priority for siblings, many of whom will be the equality bright brothers and sisters of children already selected by ability.

It's not really one thing nor the other. I'm not sure how 'partially selective'is actually justified.

About five years ago The Guardian did an expose on TT and its so-called "non selective" ways and demonstrated that it was a lot more selective than it claims to be.

On question I have never understood is if they want to achieve a good mix of kids, with some clever ones and some less clever ones, why not just select randomly? Surely that will achieve the same effect?