Going private for secondary if you're not that wealthy (and live in an ex-council house)

[JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar]

This is very much a ponder, and there are a few comps that we're also considering (alongside extra help maybe) but anyway...

There's a private school near us that is aparently particularly good with DCs with LDs (ds - Y5 - is dyspraxic). It would cost a big chunk of our salaries, but we could manage it if we made economies. We live in an ex-council house on a council estate.

I have no problem at all with council estates - I've lived on one for years (as a tenant and now as an mortgage slave owner). I like it.

But - we're going to be significantly less well off than the DCs of lawyers and surgeons. We will not be going skiing. There is no room in our garden for a pony.

How do DCs from less well off families fare at private schools? Do they get a hard time?

Now I've started looking into the school, it looks so wonderful. The grounds and the activities and the opportunities. The exam results are great (but then they should be I suppose, it being selective - the entrance exam is another area of as I have no idea what it would entail nor if ds could pass it).

This has tuned into a ramble. But any thoughts much appreciated.

I'm not trying to put you off it, by any means, but I will just tell you my experience.

I went to boarding school. What is referred to as a 'public school'. You simply wouldn't believe the wealth of some of the people who send their children there. I was one of the few children whose parents were not that wealthy and who scrimped and saved to give their children what they considered the best education they could. And it was. A really, really good education.

Up until about the age of 14 (I went when I was 11) I didn't notice any differences whatsoever but around 14, I began to notice that other people had holidays (we never did) and that they lived in these enormous, houses. One or two even lived in stately homes.

Then when we all got to be about 16, they started having huge sixteenth birthday parties. Marquees in the grounds, etc etc. I didn't.

Then when they were 17, a lot of them got cars. I didn't.

And then, when they left school, they went to finishing school in Switzerland!!

Then, what with the second homes in all the right places, they all met all the right men, and are now all revoltingly wealthy (with the exception of a few of us) and I simply don't live in the same world as them.

All the education in the world cannot instill confidence in a child (that's what parents do) and in my opinion, confidence is worth way more than a good A level result.

I'm not saying that I was envious or jealous of these other girls, just that I felt somehow beneath them and that has perhaps given me a lifelong feeling of not being quite good enough. Funnily enough, I was very academic and always top of the class, but as I said above, that's not all that matters in life.

Hope that helps.

Just a question Longrass, did you make any lasting friendships with these girls?

How many of your peers went to University etc? Finishing schools in Switzerland and meeting the right men usually a path for a nice, but less academic girl?

I went to a private school. My parents overextended themselves with the mortgage and school fees for 4 of us. We had a big house (shared with my grandmother) but it was in a pretty awful state and every room was rented out to lodgers to make ends meet so playdates were out of the question.

I was at school in a university town so most of the other people at my school were children of academics. This meant noone had any money, all houses were shabby, noone had a pony and only one or two people went skiing. It simply wasn't a problem. Noone looked down at me because my parents couldn't afford for us to go away at all etc. Noone looked down on my sister's best friend at the same school whose dad was a scrap metal merchant.

It depends entirely on the school.

Yes, one of my best friends is one I shared a dormitory with for all those years! She's actually the least snobby person I know, and possibly the person least interested in money (although she has pots of it!).

Yes, most of them did go to university.` You're right, it was the slightly less academic ones that went to finishing school.

Maybe it does depend on the school. And also on the child. I'd probably have grown up with an inferiority complex even if I was home-schooled!

Gosh, thank you everyone. Food for thought indeed.

My head says it would be a bad idea and whenever others have posted similar questions I've always thought "save the fees money and pay for tutors if need be". But I haven't found any tutors that are geared towards helping DCs with any LDs - they all seem to be geared towards passing entrance exams or upping GCSE/A-level results.

I guess it has never really occured to me that private education might be an option. Nor that I'd actually want ds to go to one (I have a whole host of prejudices, not to mention left-leaning politics!).

I'm going to start visiting the state schools near us, and arrange to visit the private school I'm thinking about. Hopefully I'll fall slightly less in love with it

We are probably the least wealthy parents in my DS class at prep school. (even though we are financially comfortable by most people's standards).

I'd say 99% of my son's friends dont care at all about our financial background, but among the parents it is a different story. Although I have made some good friends, there is a "hard-core" of snobs - but I dont want to be friends with people like that anyway!

We dont have a pony and we dont go skiing. Nor do lots of the other kids.

I do feel it's worth it academically and from an extra-curricular activity point of view but it does depend on the school.

Oh my, the parents.

My most recent experience of a privately educating mother was dreadful. She was vile. And back when I was a teenager I briefly dated a boy who was a boarder at a proper public school - he was pretty vile about my belongings and my home. His Eton-attending friend however was delightful. And we're talking over 20 years ago. See, I said I was a bundle of prejudices...

Unfortunately, these attitudes are not the preserve of private schools. Our local comprehensive has a number of children from wealthy families and there is HUGE pressure to wear high-end labels (no uniform); lots of competition re holidays, homes, electrical gadgets,etc.

There are likely to be lots of parents scrimping and saving to send their child with LD too. Go see the school. Do drive buys and check out the parents at pickup/drop off .

I do have quite a nice car. That should help.

The other issue of course is our neighbours and their DCs. One downside of living on an estate (as in housing, not country!) is that some people can be very insular. And I remember being really mean to dcs in straw boaters* and blazers

• DS would not be required to wear a boater, btw!

Meant to add a at the end of that first sentance. God, I sound horrible. I don't care if all the other parents think I'm beneath them - as long as they don't convey this to their dcs. Which I suppose they might.

Speak to the head. Be honest about your feelings. See how the school react and take it from there.

As for children in council houses going to private school, there's a phrase for that. It's called social mobility

My parents literally got into debt to put me and my brother through (separate) private schools. They maintain it was worth it as we got amazing educations which led to Uni and great careers, although who is to say we wouldn't have achieved that anyway?

Thinking about the finances, please remember that the fees are just the tip of the iceberg - uniform and trips can be phenomenally expensive too, plus extra music and sporting things too.

Personally I was aware of being one of the poorer girls from day 1 and it completely haunted me. I did not form one proper friendship and I am sure that was probably part of it. It is impossible not to take it to heart when the other kids have holidays, and the latest of everything etc and we had nothing at all. On the other hand, my brother did not experience any of these feelings at all and was incredibly popular and made lifelong friends.

Funnily enough, nobody was openly catty at school, the only stick I got was actually from the local kids who used to think I was stuck-up for going to private school, so in the end I didn't fit in in either place really.

We send our kids to state school now because we can't afford private. My brother is really rich by most people's standards but sends his boy to the most expensive school in the country ( he lives abroad) where many of the other kids are royalty or have famous parents etc. His son is really struggling with the other kids and the other parents are beyond belief - they openly tell their kids not to bother with him because of his "background"!

We are fairly comfortably off by many people's standards and send our DD to private school. Even so, it is a worry finding the fees for every term! If we didn't have to pay the fees we would have so much more to spend on other things (a larger house, for starters). But I think it's well worth it. We have one of the more modest houses in the classroom in this particular school. DD does go on basic school trips (which you pay for, but they are costed on a par with those in state schools) but not the extras like skiing. She has been to other private schools (eg in SE London - Blackheath High) - that were more socially mixed. That's said I never feel below anyone else ... and nor should you! A couple of the girls at Blackheath in her year definitely lived on a council estate - others on an estate of a different kind ;) I would consider all options and think what is best for your DC. Thank heavens your DC won't have to wear a boater! My DD's uniform is also understated and I'm glad of that!

re uniform - a lot of these private schools have thriving second hand sales - they're popular and all types use them. Re clubs although DD's school has some you pay extra for - most you don't (so worth checking that when you go to see this school). Music lessons are expensive whichever school you go to if you want to learn an instrument. My DD's best friend got an ipad for getting level 5 in her sats ... my DD a rabbit - although over the longer term with food etc I guess that will work out more expensive ;).

My son is in 6th form. Neither he nor his friends give a shit how much money they have. You will get some desperate/needy/status obsessed parents at almost any school.

My best friend sent her DD to a local school and I have never been so 'checked out' by a group of parents as I was that day. One DC came up to talk to my DD and my friends DD and asked me what car I drive

I couldn't begin to tell you what the finances of any of his friends are. I wouldn't care less if I could.

I shred my council house with my 4 brothers and 3 sister and was broke until my 30s. Private school rarely means 'born with a silver spoon'. And it is nonsense to assume that because someone does have cash that they are a snaob or their children are snoblets

Pagewatch, what a sensible answer. There are unpleasant status obsessed people everywhere. We have two boys at private shcool, one who has just started at a very prestigious boarding school, the kids dont give a toss tbh about the money, we both work full time although I very fortunately work for a company that allows me to work from home so that really helps. Dont have expensive hobbies and the school uniform at these schools have thriving 2nd hand shops, once the rugby shirt has been dropped in the mud, left to dry and then brought home to be washed 7 days later you just wouldnt dream of buying new. There is always a queue outside the 2nd hand shop when it opens!

When you look back at say 60, I think you might well think what a great way to spend your money. One always wants to give your children the best start in life and if you look at the school, look at the children and I think you will know whether it is the right school for your children. Look at Diane Abbott, Ruth Clark and in her day Shirley Williams the Education Secetary. All of them chose to send their children to private schools. Williams was perhaps the worst of all, she was shutting down grammar schools at the same time!

Point of information: Shirley Williams's daughter was at a grammar school that went private during her time in the school. So I suppose she did not choose private schooling, but yes I supose she could have removed her child.

oops I mean 'suppose'

I also live in a council flat and through a fortunate set of circumstances am lucky enough to send our ds to an academic selective private school. I am genuinely astounded by how much wealth and privilege there is out there but I think that at primary level it matters not a jot to the kids (having said that, havn't had anyone back yet as not much space chez cancan!!). The parents are a different matter - lots of subtle probing about how we can afford private (we have v old 'n'reg car, pretty scruffy ourselves, dont own a property but love to spend our money on ds education and travelling to far flung interesting destinations).
I think at secondary level the realisation levels widen amongst kids and our (sensitive)ds will begin to realise the wealth/priviledged opportunity gap - how that will affect us, i'm not sure - hanging out for a grammar school!

My DH went to a posh public school on an assisted place and his mum, who was a cleaner, dropped him off in an old mini metro. Obviously DH was well aware that some of his classmates had huge wealth and lived very different lives in the holidays, but it has only been a positive experience for DH. He had a really great education, but is well aware of the value of money. Any "rich" child who would look down their nose at a "poor" child in this sort of school is really not a good person. Depends on the school etc. Don't forget that also, many of the teachers in these schools are ordinary people. My brother teaches in a private secondary and before they offered him the job - they said - can you cope with the fact that some of your students will have more pocket money than you will earn in a year !! DB said, fine, doesn't matter .

erm, I'm pretty sure Shirley Williams did remove her child (I"d just started at the same school at the time all this was going on)

but that's not really relevant

OP = it very much depends on the type of school it is ... round here there are some private schools which have very socially and racially mixed intakes - others are completely homogenous, all blond and glossy (and that's just the parents )

of ds1's friends, one is the son of a premiership footballer, several live on council estates, some have swimming pools, don't think anyone's got a pony, everyone wears second-hand uniform, and there's lots of families like ours who are somewhere in the middle

ds1 feels completely comfortable there, but there are a couple of schools nearby which I wouldn't have been keen on because the intake is predominantly exceptionally wealthy and I think that would be difficult to cope with

Huge range of backgrounds at the DCs schools - no-one I know cares one jot - certainly the children don't

But but but, you need to be aware that there are lots of extras that cost. Clubs etc don't cost anything extra usually, unless you want to go riding. But music seems to cost a fortune - both mine are now doing two instruments and it costs a fortune and it's not the sort of thing where opting out is easy. Also things like skiing trips where most of the year group go are expensive.

How many children have you got? Is it just for one?

My own experience of public school was really good. Still friends with a few people who went there - which is surprising given how long ago it was - but you tend to develop quite strong bonds esp at boarding school.

There are pecking orders in every school, if you ask me. I find that useful as the ones who look down their noses are the ones I know I don't want to be friends with. My dd goes to private school now but only because we get a whopping discount (on account of dh working there). She went to state school until year 2 & dh & I both went right through the state system & both of us had bad experiences of comprehensives. Both dd & we as parents have made some great friends at the private school & she hasn't suffered for being less well off financially (she's now in year 8). I found the state school parents more tricky to be honest, but I think it's very much an individual choice & I would just try to be objective & choose the school you think your dc will be most happy in.