State vs Private and me vs DH

[dastardlydoodah]

I don't know if this is a regular topic on here, but could really do with some advice.

We currently live in Putney with DD (6mo). Our flat has 1 bedroom and we will have to move in 6 months or so as I'm desperate for more space. It's doubtful that we'll be able to afford something bigger here, and we're both very open to moving out of London for more space, better schools, nice community etc. So far, so good.

Problem is, I want to move somewhere that has a good state education system. DH earns good money, but not amazing amounts, and paying the £12k per year for DD to go to school would cripple us. I have never been a high earner and was hoping to spend a couple of years with DD at home, then retrain. I think the time with me would be great for DD, and that a move out of London to somewhere with more of a community would be amazing for us all as a family. I also don't want fights between DH and I about who has been working hardest/latest/has to make dinner, etc etc. I am really enjoying the dynamic we have at the moment and would like it to continue.

Our problem is that DH is desperate for DD to be privately educated. He has said that he doesn't care how many sacrifices he has to make or how miserable we are, she is the most important thing and we have to make sure she has access to the best education possible. At the moment we have a reasonably high standard of living, despite my not currently earning, and I just can't see how we would survive.

I suppose I am asking, am I being reasonable in thinking that maybe a private education isn't the be all and end all, is there a particular county with really good state education, and have other people had this dilemma and what did they do?

Ik a month more??? Wow.

Mind you, 1K a month would only cover th basic fees of a not vey expensive private school for one child - not including all the other expenses fo private education.

You don't go to private school for the grades,you are fooling yourself if you think everyone who goes to private school gets straight "A"s.They don't,you have either got the brains or not...private education gets you the extras,and this is what is often the difference in the education itself.When I left I knew that I had had a priviledged education,but I had NO IDEA the difference it would make.I saw friends in college writing off application forms,they were embarrassing...They had no idea how to act in certain situations,dress appropriately,conduct interviews...that was when I realised what my parents had sacrificed all the holidays,clothes etc for,and thought how lucky I was.The trips abroad,exchanges,skiing and horseriding lessons,gave us all confidence.I'm a nurse,what I always wanted to be,got average results from school.Nurses I work with think I'm "wasted" wiping bums,I speak 2 foreign languages,have a "beautiful" speaking voice apparently,and I guess social skills,but I certainly am not a snob-only kids whose parents were arses turned out that way!Some girls got crap grades,but the thing is they have all done really well in life,because the "extras" got them that little bit more in interviews etc.
So,I think get a good state school,or if private be prepared for BIG sacrifices,and don't expect A grades,that is NOT what private school is about.

Woopsidaisy you're having a laugh! So your "extras" as you put it made all the difference. Going by your message I would hardly say your writing skills are up to much.

What a patronising post woopsidaisy.
Do you not think state schools do trips abroad and exchanges?
What does having horseriding lessons and skiing have to do with writing an application form?

It depends where you live. Here private primaries cost £4-6k pa, high school £7-9k. This gets you schools which have 1/4- 1/3 pupils getting straight As (if thats how you want to judge a school).

Some school fees include books. The only other compulsory extra is the uniform.

Lots of people at my school didnt pay for the ski trips/speech and drama etc extras and still went to Oxbridge.

People with burseries/scholarships got their transport/lunch/uniform for free too.

Where's Xenia when we need her? To admit she only sent her DC to private schools for purely elitist reasons? And especially to avoid the wrong sort of other children.

What bothers me in OP is the DH's assumption that "only the best will do". It's an unrealistic strategy, especially (as others have pointed out) if you ever want to expand your family. Not just in regards to education, but everything, really. And it puts huge pressure on one's children to perform, too.

Your dd is young yet. I'd keep your mind and options open. The ability to pay means that you may have more options available to you. That is the luxury, not going to a private school per se. Provided you look at moving somewhere with decent transport then the chances are that you'll find yourself with a number of school options, both state and private.

I'd be hesitant to set your heart on one particular school too early - it is hard to know how things will turn out, and a change in head say can make an enormous difference to a school.

If all else is equal I'd look at an 11+ area in the home counties, rather than somewhere where there are only superselective schools such as Tiffins.

But just be open at present. A lot may happen over the next few years.

If you are struggling now and living in a one bedroom flat, isn't this time for a reality check. State primaries in Wandsworth are actually very good; should not this decision be put on hold until the baby is 11. At that time you will be more aware of what what is required for her as an individual and a far better idea of your personal circumstances and what you can and can't afford at the time.

Seems a bit early to be thinking about it - on the face of it it looks as if you can't afford it, so why not just drop the subject for a few years, by which time he may have come to realise himself that it is unrealistic?

I totally agree that you don't send your kids to a private school for the grades, DH is definitely more concerned about the social aspect.

I think I haven't been clear - in fact, I don't think it was totally clear in my head until I sat down today and measured up all of your responses - we can afford to live in a bigger flat/house, we do actually own a larger flat too and rent it out, but it's in a part of Wandsworth that isn't in any decent schools' catchment area. I meant that as it's small we will be needing to move soon, and we're not sure where to (i.e for good state schools). The costs you all mention would be affordable if I went back to work on my previous salary, but I have been considering retraining, in which case 'I couldn't see how we'd survive' - effectively paying for my studies and DD's schooling.

I suppose it really depends on where we move to and whether I retrain or not. It will boil down to the standard of state school where we end up moving to, as to whether I will need to earn the higher wage for schools. Does that all make sense?

Another thought... if you are going to send your child/children to a private school, it is going to mean immense sacrifices (as you have already said). For that reason alone, I think both you and DH have to be fully behind the idea. In fact, in my opinion, if you aren't in agreement, the sacrifices are sufficient to threaten a marriage.

You need to find a compromise (eg state infants and private from year 3 - by which time you might feel more ready to go back to work).

One possibility is to start 'paying the fees' now (i.e. putting £1000 per month in a savings account) and see how it goes. It might change your DH's mind - or you might find that with some tough budgeting you can spare the money after all. Either way good news!

All the "advantages" posted about private schools, can be provided by a good comprehansive and supportive and interested parents.

Acebaby, that is a great idea. I think it's definitely a good starting point. £1k per month won't cover fees in later education, but we'd have quite a pot to dip into...

I'm with Acebaby on this. Why not start looking for compromises.e.g. private primary and state grammar. State primary whilst you save and private secondary. There are lots of options and combinations that you can think about.
I have 2 ds one in a prep school and one who will start in 2011. I also have a 6 figure salary (DH is starting a business) and we have a mortgage free property in London plus other investments etc.
I am state educated but have chosen private school for my sons as they are both summer birthdays so young for their year and I felt they would benefit from the smaller classes and more 1-1 help. (BTW DS1 has mild dyslexia and his additional support etc is included in the fees). Additionaly, the sport is better as some of the inner London state schools have no playing fields. If you live in London you get good ethnic diversity in private as well as state schools what you don't get, unsurprisingly, is the same level of social diversity.
You have time to think about your various options including bursaries (mainly at secondary level). However, it is important you realistically assess if you can afford it or not because otherwise the strained home life caused by financial worries might outweigh some of the benefits of private education.

I would still suggest you and DH start looking at schools. What kind of school do you want? Do you want to stay in Putney?

What kind of secondary school? Single sex or mixed, selective, less selective, arty, sporty academic, progressive or traditional, boarding or day, any specific type of private (does he secretly want Gourdanston for example)?

Then when you have more ideas and it is not just knee jerk state or private, you have more ideas about your options. But you have to be realistic about the cost.

My DH is often very complimentary about old Etonian's, if I felt as positive as he does I would have moved heaven and earth to send our DS there. However, maybe because I studied at Oxford, I'm not as star struck. I don't quite get why my DH didn't try harder to get our son their though (maybe because he has a bit more of an inferiority complex than me)?

Oh btw I had noticed a lot of privately educated kids look more glowing, I only recently realised its because they almost all have a snow tan in winter.

If you sell the larger flat and move to a cheaper area will that pay for private school fees? Problem solved?

I would send my child to the school that fitted them best, this may be state OR private depending on the particular area and the particular school and your child's character and abilities.

I remember Xenia once posted "I wouldn't dream of sending my child to a state school", so she is part of the class/section of population who ideologically chooses a private school. Another manifestation of this is someone I met who went to Godolphin, he hated it and said he'd never send his kids there, but now his brother won't speak to him because he isn't sending his children to Godolphin so therefore is a bad parent, according to the brother. I find this sort of ideological manifestion quite bonkers and also a bit scary.

I trawled a number of state and private options for DD and the best one by far was the local state school, however I don't think the next state school is right for her, the arts and music teaching isn't very good and DD is very good at those things and I'd like her to be stimulated in those subjects rather than them taught as an afterthought.
However I visited a rubbish state and 2 really awful private schools during my visits so you cannot say one sector is always better than the other.

It looks like your dh has always felt a bit cross/unconfident because he didn't have a private education.

But, there are also plenty of adults who were educated privately but resent their education.

I am all for state schools (I did very well in them and went on to Cambridge) and feel that sending our children to private schools would destroy our family life (we'd have to work so much harder).

I wouldn't advise moving to a grammar school area because of the 11+. Where we live we have great comprehensive schools where many children do very well. (our local private schools are a bit nice but dim!)

Good luck with decisions; it's difficult if both of you have very different ideas.

We just did private schooling from year six onwards for our two. It saved a lot of money and gave us more time to build up our savings for later years. There were huge benefits to getting to know the other families in our village through attending the local primary and we continue to benefit from this.

We are 7 years ahead of you in this thought process....

DH was exclusively privately educated, I went all the way through the state system to Cambridge. Our compromise was to use the state sector for pre-prep and then go private. If DS1 had been academically thriving at the state school I think I would have been able to talk DH into leaving him there for a bit longer. However the state secondaries near us are either not great or excessively competitive. If you had to pick 30 kids from a pool of 300 at age 11, almost all of whom would be fine actually, I don't think DS1 will be in that top 30. Perfectly normal abilities, but not stand out stunning.

So we are moving DS1 to a private school at Y3 tomorrow, from a good state primary not far from Putney. DS2 is moving at the same time into Y1 to ease the move for DS1, solve school run issues and - oh - because magically there was a place for DS1 in Y3 if his little brother was going to join at the same time. Otherwise we might have been on the waiting list.

I have already been informed by one of DS1's new classmates that he can't play in my garden because it isn't big enough (it is actually quite big for SW London). I am stunned by the number of families who can afford to educate children privately when only one of them is in paid employment. The other mother in DS2's class who works practically kissed me when she discovered she would not be the only working mum that year. And we deliberately chose a school which is thought to be "nice" and not too bling...By any normal standards we are well off but there is clearly a whole new league of income above me which I had not dreamed of. Hopefully the culture shock will pass but at the moment I'd say move to the catchment area of OFSTED outstanding or very good and tell DH it's just for pre-prep.