Middle Class Dilemma - state school daughters, public school sons?

[Cortina]

Just read an article 'The Son Only Rises' by James Delingpole published this month, sorry don't have a link.

It bascially makes the point that in cash strapped times if you can afford to send just one child to private school you should chose your son. This is why according to article:

1. Boys, whether we like it or not are much more likely to end up earning their family's crust, while girls - especially if they're pretty- can always marry someone rich regardless of their education.

1. Girls, being more sophisticated, devious and socially adept than boys are more capable of negotiating the complexities of the state-school system than boys

1. Boys are generally lazier and less mature than girls so will benefit from more discipline and rigour at private school.

1. Boys are usually more physical and the sport on offer is better quality and more frequent than at the average state school.

Delingpole says, tongue in cheek I hope, that he's still holding out for a lottery win that will buy his girl an education too but this is the outcome he is hoping for:

'Boy goes to tailcoat-wearing school full of boys desperate to meet attractive sisters with urban, state-educated cred; Girl meets future duke/hedgefunder and never has to work again. I don't call that sexist. I call that common sense'.

Hmmmmm

I read this with interest as I went to local state school ( quite a good grammar school ) my brother was sent away to an independent school as a boarder. The reason for this was given as being that as he would go into the family business it would be awkward if he had to mix with those who might be his staff in years to come !!!!! - that was the 1970s not the 1870s too. Anyway I've had two relatively sucessful careers - changed sectors a few years back. Brother did go into the family business but doesn't enjoy that and didn't enjoy his public school either. I still think I might have done even better if I'd had a better grounding in sciences and maths and brother won't even put his old school on his facebook page he hated it so much. The article is utter twaddle.

If I had to choose I'd probably sent my DD private and keep my DS state.

But I can see why others would make the opposite choice. Looking at the league tables there seem to be more very good girls schools than co-ed and if you got into one of these then why would you go private?

Also, a lot of the girls I went to private school with aren't doing very much with their good education. If I was their parent I'd be a bit about spending £40k on teaching them latin, debating, calculus etc to then spend their 20s/30s being a 'trophy wife'.

In essence I disagree with him. However, I do think independent schools often cater better for boys in terms of more male staff (many state primary schools have no male teachers), great sport etc. (not saying girls do not enjoy sport)

Surely children need an education that suits their interests and abilities. I know a few parents who have educated different children in either the state or independent sector but that has been because one of the children failed to pass the entrance exam to the school that their sibling already attended.

Regarding foreverastudent's observation that spending money on a girl's education seems a waste if she doesn't do much with it, I expect many of these women are using their education to bring up their children and educate them in partnership with schools.

When DM (late 60s) was a child she overheard her parents saying "Well there is no need to educate XXX(DM)". She went to local grammar school, her brothers to a well known public school. By sheer bloody mindness, she became a barrister and raised 4 children. Her bros also bcame parents, and have had successful, but not spectacular careers. She is still resentful that her DP didn't think she was worth investing in. (When she was born, they only had a boy's name planned. Didn't want a girl, so no need to plan for one!).

When my siblings and I were children my GPs offered to pay for my DBs to be privatley educated. My dad told them to get lost. We all went state. We are all healthy, educated and solvent. I thank my dad almost every day for my diverse, interesting, wordly wise state education.

I'm amused by the idea that one's daughter is expected to marry into money, and agree that one should "arm" her with an education. But I'm partly amused and partly offended by the idea that one can only do so in the private sector.

Once again, these views are put forward by people who have probably never been closer to a state school than shuddering distance of the local "sink" comp, who saw some non-white faces or some children with loose ties or some children who dropped their aitches, and vowed never to darken its doors. And who, luckily for them, had a nice financial cushion to enable them to put their high-and-mighty morals into practice.

I was state educated. DB went to private school. It still grates slightly. We don't talk about it.

It happened to me. I went to not very posh boarding school. Two sisters went to local Comprehensive. Parents could not afford all three.

My youngest sister says she felt I was a stranger to her who only occassionally lived at home like a lodger. I dont know if my sisters resent it.

I would not do it.

If memory serves me I think there are now something like 30% of partnerships/marriages where women earn more.

Women are more likely to end up single parents, so need an education in case the rich man they married buggers off.

There are not enough rich men to go round.

Over 50% of medical graduates are now women, and are 46% of the university graduates so it is likely women will end up earning more, on average in the future.

Do men who go to Eton marry women who went to the local state school?

I know a couple of millionaires and their wives are both very high class ladies who went to private schools.

But, hey, let's base our thinking on the 18th century, and while we are at it say black and white lower class boys do worst at school so lets not bother with education for them and re-introduce serfdom.

The only acceptable way to treat siblings is to offer them all similar opportunities for development in life, in accordance with their own talents. IMO, that will not usually mean educating your boys privately and your girls at a state school.

He has made several mistaken assumptions:

a) Sexist, obviously
b) Many high-flying men prefer their wives to be well-educated. If they are bright, they will want someone bright to talk to. Doesn't exclude state-educated of course, but this means ignoring girls' education because they're 'just going to get married' is a mistake.
c) What are the chances of a state school educated girl 'snagging' a hedge fund manager or a duke? Not v. high (not that that's a bad thing)
d) Marrying a rich man does not set you up for life. It is perfectly possible for them to hold many assets in their own name, therefore not counting them as marital assets and keeping them safe in the event of a split. It is possible to be a rich wife and then a poor divorcee.
e) He is assuming your daughter is going to be attractive, nay, the most attractive girl in these boys' social circle. She probably won't.

So even if you ignore the sexism it's a very flawed plan.

Very rich men who spend their lives at work want highly accomplished wives who will create a comfortable and stimulating life for them and their children. And that requires multiple talents and skills that only a good brain and a good education provide.

Well to put a different spin on things, I know several families where this happens but it is done so as not to disadvantage the boys - girls state secondary school gets excellent results, there is no equivalent for boys & the all- boys & co-ed schools are streets behind so these families choose to pay for private for the boys

I went to state school and my brother went to public school. My brother didn't go on to university, I have a PhD. Doesn't always work out that public school leads to a better education!

Just how many single sex state schools are there?

Where I live the majority of local state schools are single sex

crikey. I never knew.

Takes me back to the days of the courtisans...

Maybe it's because we're "up North" but there are quite a number of very rich men around here who are not posh in the least and certainly not privately educated lol.

Some of them left school at 16 to go into a trade and became massively wealthy going into the property business.

One particular family I know (he is on the Sunday Times Rich list) and his wife has been with him for 30 odd years and they lead a pretty normal life in the community. And that's the norm tbh.

It's not all high class dinners and Earls in the new world order imo!!!

What a future if people are still doing this. I have a DD and a DS and I could not live with myself if one went private and the other not. Ridiculous. Both my DM and me are the higher wage earners in our family and my sister is gay so no good her dressing up in frilly clothes trying to get married.

This was quite common when I was growing up but surely in this day and age when women make up more than half of all new lawyers and in many other professions make up a high percentage.

Never heard of James Delingpole. He sounds like a shit-stirring bananahead to me.

Agree with unquietdad that this is all a load of old bollocks anyway as the vast vast majority of people can't choose a private school whether they want to or not.

A friend of mine last year told me I had a choice about whether to bring DD up to be "marriage material" or to be a professional worker. Her view was that working mothers (by which she meant City types) have to sacrifice either their jobs or their home lives once they have dcs. It really upset me because I have a career and there is no doubt that it has on occasion meant missing out on my dcs being able to attend certain events, have friends to play whenever they want etc, even if it also means we have better holidays and a nice house as a result of my earnings. I had real worries that in wanting my dd to succeed academically (if whe can) I was leaving her to a life of compromise and difficult choices rather than being a yummy mummy able to go to the gym or for coffee at will, and always there for the dcs.

Once I thought it through though, it is obvious that the best thing I can do for DD is to give her choices, and if she does decide she wants to be a stay at home mum she has a much better chance of meeting someone who can provide that for her by getting a good job herself.

Not sure that all this is quite relevant to OP other than to say, surely it is obvious that you choose the school for the child's own needs and abilities - didn't we get out of the habit of not bothering to educate girls over a hundred years ago? And it may be that the state school may be better than private school in any event, depending on the child.

James Delingpole is to me what Jane Fonda was to Clive James ('If i find myself sharing a belief with her, I reexamine it immediately'). I'm sure I do share many loathsome beliefs with this man, though sadly not his writing talent. I think possibly that his children are quite young? Perhaps as he grows up a bit, he will find out that people are individuals, even his daughters.

I have a friend who has done this. I can't bring myself to question her decision - don't really want to know on what planet it would be a good thing to do.

I was privately educated and had a fantastic experience at school.

But had my sister or brother been sent to a different school or had a different 'class' of education it would have caused riots!

How can you choose which child to educate at a private level based solely on how much you can afford. I agree that if one child is particularly gifted in music/arts/science etc and wins a scholarship to a specialist school then you should embrace this. But to send one child and not the other(s) solely on monetary levels can only build resentment and encourage a further gap between them.

If you've only got the finances for one then send both to state schools and put the money aside for their college/uni funds or for when they leave school.

Every child is different and their own skills (both academic and not) will determine how well they succeed in life ;-)