Rewards/Stickers for Behaviour in Class

[CupcakesHay]

Hi

Can anyone help? I'm training to become teacher and currently planning a research project on rewards used to help good behaviour in classroom. This is my last project before i defer for a year cos of upcoming baby!

I don't live in Uk otherwise I'd ask friends, so I was hoping someone here might be able to help me.

Do they use rewards at the primary school your DC goes to? Do you think they help? Does your DC think they help?

I'm just trying to get a bit of perspective on the whole thing before i start really. :)

Any thought would be really helpful! Thanks!

You are a saint, Indigo.
I am pretty insistent about please and thank you's. For all kinds of reasons.

It's in there about Skinner, wait and see, very funny anecdote, really. He comes across as a complete tosser.

ragged - I am definitely not a saint. Just a depressed mother not keeping it together very well.

There are lots of good reasons for insisting on Thank You's, they are social grease, and I do encourage my children to say thank you to others. But thank you's just happen to not be something that bother me very much.

But - if your child doesn't say thank you, you still have to get them fed and dressed and to school on time anyway. A thank you doesn't change anything. You still have to get them birthday and christmas presents etc.

And the reason you do all these things is because they make you feel better. You'd feel terribly guilty if you didn't feed your kid....

Yes Indigo, I would stick to that.
I'm in charge and that's the deal.
I wouldn't chastise, shout, argue or cajole, I would quite simply smile, put the stuff away and get on with something else.

His choice.

I didn't know Skinner made an overture towards Grandin!Who says that? Her?

It's neither he nor there. Someone doing this doesn't obliterate over a half century of exemplary academic endeavour does it?

If such actions nullify work done, we wouldn't be left with many geniuses in any sphere.
No Caravaggio, Verlaine, Einstein, Clapton, Churchill, Kennedy, Guavera, Mandela......

Shame, that.

people are looking at this very deeply!
In my experience, teachers need to use a rewards/punishments system in order to have an extra tool in behaviour managment as well as highlighting good practise to children (a child does not intrinsically know what is good/bad work or behaviour until they are told).

Children like getting stickers/raffle tickets/team points etc. But they like being told why they got them too- in my experience in can create a sense of pride. It transfers to secondary too- we used to get merit awards, lots (not all) of the children were motivated by these.

I do agree that children at the two extremes of academic ability get disproportionatly rewarded. And I do agree that the eventual aim should be to want to achieve for a sense of self achievement. But for the time being, let them enjoy a sticker.

And I agree with the poster who said she would be distraught in no one praised a cake which took 6 hours effort- I would be too! I is always nice to be praised, whether you expect it or not.

Sorry for typos, baby climbing on me!

Moondog - I would ask him to do the work without promising any reward at the end.

Then if he didn't do the work - I wouldn't have on my hands a temper tantrum because he didn't get the reward... :)

Moondog, how is not letting your ds play with his computer game if it's what he wants to do, not a punishment if you view letting him play with it a reward?
How is it not coercion if he can't do something he wants to do without doing something that you want him to do first?

And I'm still puzzled by people who get 'distraught' or 'devastated' because they don't receive praise for making a cake. A cake which they probably know is a great cake without any outside input. Yes, it's nice if someone acknowledges your efforts but surely not the end of the world if they don't.

I'd do the same as you IndigoBell.

Fine, if that works for you.

But with my way, he will do the work I want him to do and with your way he won't.

I am the adult, I know what is best for him and I will arrange reinforcing contingencies to work in a way that keeps us both happy.

What I know will happen is that as his behaviour becomes more fluent, he will enjoy doing the work for its own sake in the same way that I started running to ensure I looked nice in tight fitting jeans.

Now I run because I like the buzz running gives me, and I look nice in tight fitting clothes.

What's not to like?

It isn't Juule, not in the technical way a Behaviourist considers punishment.

Thebehaviour of not doing his work is neither reinforced nor punished.

How do you propose we instill the things we want to in children who are finding them hard to learn and who aren't responding well to someone telling them this is how they should act? Stuff like tenacity, endeavour, patience, kindness, good manners?

it's not a trick question-I'm genuinely interested in your thoguhts on this.

What happened to good old star stickers for good work and vocal praise for working well together.

When I went to school there was a sort of house point system, where all children were awarded credits for work / behaviour that merited it. On the down side anyone behaving badly was given a debit (which was taken off the credit score).

At the end of the school year the person that had the most credits in the school was given a trophy.

Certificates for everything seems to make them pointless.

I shall find out what DD1's school does in September!

A behaviourist would never ever remove rewards/reinforcers already gained. Very unethical.

I have no idea what a behaviourist technical definition of punishment is.
But if one of my children was told they could do the work and get to play or not do the work and not get to play, then I think they might view not playing as a punishment as opposed to the reward of playing if they did the work.

Dependant on how much they wanted to play the computer game.

I never voice it in a 'Do this and get this' way.

I say, 'We'll do this and then do this'.
I never suggest one less palatable than other.
If he expresses a marked pref. for computer game i will say' Yes, we will! Let's just do this first'

'Dependant on how much they wanted to play the computer game'

EXACTLY!!!!!

Moondog - But with my way, he will do the work I want him to do and with your way he won't.

My kids mostly do what I want, and sometimes they don't. I'm very happy with that arrangement. Just because I'm the adult doesn't mean I should impose my will on my kids all the time.

They are certainly doing homework this holiday that they don't want to do, because they know they need to do it.

How do you propose we instill the things we want to in children who are finding them hard to learn
By more talking, more explanation and more showing them the effects of their behaviour. As much of that as it takes...

They can understand that them behaving badly makes me cross or sad. That them staying up late makes me tired. That hitting each other makes each other cross. Then they can choose what to do.... I think this is how they will learn kindness by observing the effect of their cruel and their kind behavior.

I've read Alfie Kohn's books and found myself nodding at lots of what was written. Some bits were a bit .
I've read 'Don't Shoot the Dog' (thanks for the recommendation) and found it fascinating (if not a bit scary how much power a skilled behaviourist could have).
I am still trying to reconcile the two
However, I think the issue is to remember what long term goals are for the child and not overuse rewards for your own ends. Not that I haven't used bribes on my children for quick fixes at times.
However, after reading books such as Alfie Kohn's I would look for a more consensual method of dealing with a situation.

'I think this is how they will learn kindness by observing the effect of their cruel and their kind behavior'

Consequences, (good and otherwise) are important. I agree.
If waht you do, works for you, then great. What I do works for me and that makes me very very happy and satisfied in every way.

Juule, yes you are right. A skilled behaviour analyst is a very powerful person. It is an ethical duty never to abuse that power as it is very easy to do so for many. This is why a post graduate course in BA has a very heavy focus on morals and ethics.we are all to aware of what a potent force this technology is.

Indigo, two more things I thoguht about when having my run that I wanted to ask you.

You answered the question I posed as follows:

Me
'How do you propose we instill the things we want to in children who are finding them hard to learn?'

You
'By more talking, more explanation and more showing them the effects of their behaviour. As much of that as it takes...'

What happens when the talking and explantion doesn't work? If you spend any time in the average educational establishment you will see myriad examples of this method not working. What then? Any ideas? If you have,I'd love to hear them.

Regarding reinforcement/rewards, do you think Alfie Kohn rejects a reward system for himself? Is he writing all those books for nothing and sitting on all those breakfast tv shows in the tates out of the kindness of his heart?

Swallowed, I'm kind of old fashioned. I beleive that adults should run the show when it comes to kids. Oh sure, they can make lots of choices about other stuff, such as what to have for breakfast, what to wear, what to watch and so on ,but the big decisions are made by me.

The present freefall situation in education is by and large down to the methods that you subscribe to. Let the kid be in charge! No control. Nasty! Follow his lead! Let him explore and develop! It wil all fall into place. Relaaaaaaaaaax and follow his lead.

It's funny Bahaviourists consider words and phrases like 'will and independence and development of values' to be jargon because they are in essence meannigless. They can't be explained or described. Any attempts to do so invariably end up in what is known as an 'explanatory fiction'.

A Behaviourist doesn't deny internal concepts commonly referred to as thouhgts and feelings. What is does say is that at its present stage of evolution as a science there is no way ot measure these things and as such, we would be better focussing on and measuring what we can observe and what other people can observe.

It can be summed up in the popular acronym SMART

Specific
Measurable
Attainable
Relevant
Timely

And to reiterate, I can guarantee you that those who shudder at the thoguht of reinforcement/rewards are quite comfortable (albeit often unwittingly) with the use of punishment (in its non technical sense-it means something a little different Behaviourists.)

You are putting words into my mouth now Swallowed. I am not suggesting that people who don't give out stickers then automatically beat seven bells out of kids.

Punishment runs from this to very small things such as a sneer, a tut, a 'cold shoulder'. They are all things I class as punishment in a technical and a non technical way.

I agree with you about technical language.It's a shorthand for those in the know and it needs to be demystified by those not in the know. I am not interested in keeping Behaviourism to an elite inner circle. If I was, why would I be engaging with posters here on a w/end night? I want to share what has helped me hugely with others.

Behaviourism is not a philosophy, it is the science of human behaviour. Every person in the world uses punishment (just as they do reinforcement).It is how the world works. The issue is that most people could make better use of these strategies if they understood the scientific principles behind them.

Can you define stuff like 'will and independence and development of values'?

I am very interested in teaching. it's the most important job in the world bar none.The trouble with teaching is that most of it is based on vague theory and not on evidence based practice.

This class="underline">oep/104-2369136-7111141?ie=UTF8 book has been hugely helpful to me

Moondog - What happens when the talking and explantion doesn't work?

I keep talking, keep explaining, keep loving them, keep spending time with them, keep finding out what makes them tick and why their beahvior makes sense to them. But I'm talking about what I do with my own kids, not what I would do with a class of 30.

If you spend any time in the average educational establishment you will see myriad examples of this method not working. What then? Any ideas? If you have,I'd love to hear them.

Both the schools I have been involved with have made use of reward / punishment - so if I see any problems with them I'm seeing examples of reward and punsishment not working. I don't know many schools, so I don't know any school that doesn't use reward and punishment.

Of the two schools I've sent my kids too, in one the kids are very well behaved and the school is absolutely fantastic - and the other one I don't have a good thing to say about it. The great school gives out stickers etc. far less frequently than the bad school.

Ok, I'm somewhat out of my depth with you pros but I have read Alfie Cohen. I think that rewards are useful for promoting behaviours that have no obvious benefit to the kid at the time (from a childs perspective).

So for example being very helpful and cooperative in the mornings, getting dressed, shoes coats bags etc..for my child is either praised or sometimes rewarded with a sticker (esp if there are other pressures like a screaming baby). There is no benefit to her helping me with all these things, she doesn't care if she is late or if I am late (I'm not a shouter about something like this as she is a child and time wasting goes with the territory). So when she does it I am pleased as she is helping and eventually I hope that it becomes second nature not to sit playing with only one sock and your pants on.

I don't know how this works with older children but sometimes you need them to do things for the greater functioning of the community where there is limited self satisfaction without praise or reward. The other approach is for them to do it for fear of the 'punishment' or withdrawal of rewards which seems kind of rubbish to me for trivial matters.