Climate change: has anyone actually said what life would have to look like to prevent catastrophic warming?

[workwoes123]

I’ve been reading articles about the very gloomy, completely ignored, most recent IPCCC report.

What I can’t find is anything saying what daily life would look like if we adopted the measures that are necessary to prevent catastrophic warming? Like, in the UK, if we were to do what’s necessary:

how would we Heat our homes?
What kinds of homes could we build?
How would we travel / what transport could we have?
What would we eat?
What industries would still operate?

The reports all talk about the need to move away from fossil fuel use. What I can’t find is anything telling me what my life will look like if / when we do this?

I know people make what they think are big changes (eating veggie, holidays in the U.K., bamboo toothbrushes etc) but I suspect all these personal lifestyle changes add up to bugger all on a global scale and that the actual impacts on our lifestyles - however modest we think our lifestyles currently are - would be massive and negative (and that’s why no-one’s talking about this aspect of it). Am I right?

Feeling confined does not sound like genuine happy - at least from my experience I have shocked myself in that I have lost my lifelong wanderlust- after moving to somewhere I chose to live rather than where o needed to for work

Anyways it may be less travel , it may be slower travel but it should not be no travel

( although it is possible that us serfs have no travel and the elite super rich emit all the carbon that can be )

Wfh isn't the necessarily the answer. Its better environmentally to heat a big office block than hundreds of homes.
If you can get to that office by clean, efficient public transport that's ideal.
I think you'll still be able to travel around but maybe getting your goods and services from a more local area. Travel inter City by rail, abroad less often but Europe is so easy to get round by rail. We need to dramatically improve our public transport.
Air travel will be less available, less frequent, but not impossible.

To anyone thinking this all sounds nice - heat pumps, insulation, renewables, EVs, etc. - but how is it ever going to actually happen with all the costs and practical problems (solid walls, no-off street charging, range anxiety, no cycle paths)? Please, please, please get involved in pressing for change where you live. You could write to your MP, or local councillors, or join a local environmental group, or even simply just sign petitions on the internet.

Here's some specific ideas:

• tell your council to provide more car chargers, especially ones close to places where people don't have off-street parking
• tell your council to declare a climate emergency if they haven't
• tell your council to look at planning rules, and make sure all new builds have low carbon heating, car chargers, and maybe even solar panels if they are suitable
• tell your council to look at insulation and district heating for social housing
• tell your council to improve cycling infrastructure (safe paths, and secure parking)
• tell your council to setup a cycle library
• tell your council to improve recycling/green waste collection if it's rubbish
• join 'The Great Homes Upgrade' campaign (www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/architects-lead-retrofit-campaigners-march-on-whitehall). They're pushing for 11.7bn of spending to get all homes up to efficiency level C by 2030. 11.7bn is a lot of money, but it's achievable (apparently it's how much they're spending doing up the houses of parliament). Imagine how much more decent people's lives could be if that happened?
• tell your MP that home efficiency is important to you, and ask them to press for more investment, and things like low interest loans, or stamp duty breaks for efficient houses
• talk to your work about whether they could fit car chargers if they provide parking for their employees or customers (they can attract a super tax deductable thingy, I don't understand too)
• if employees drive as a matter of course for their work, could your work provide an electric leasing scheme (see Octopus Electric Dreams) it can be a cheap way of owning an electric car for employees because of government tax things (I don't understand either)

Okay, you'll likely be ignored, but if enough of us keep asking, it'll have a cumulative impact. An individual can't solve climate change - we have to work together.

Btw, if you can't afford an EV, don't worry, they'll get cheaper (also don't feel guilty, it's the rich people with the biggest carbon footprints!). In the meantime, the amount of emissions from different ICE cars varies pretty wildly. You can make a massive difference to your footprint by simply picking a lower emission car next time you buy one. For example, a 2015 VW Golf has half the emissions of a 2015 Nissan Navara. www.which.co.uk/reviews/new-and-used-cars/article/car-emissions/car-co2-emissions-aRVNW9t0zLu6

@MichaelAndEagle

Wfh isn't the necessarily the answer. Its better environmentally to heat a big office block than hundreds of homes. If you can get to that office by clean, efficient public transport that's ideal. I think you'll still be able to travel around but maybe getting your goods and services from a more local area. Travel inter City by rail, abroad less often but Europe is so easy to get round by rail. We need to dramatically improve our public transport. Air travel will be less available, less frequent, but not impossible.

Only if the house is left empty during the day

If the house is occupied then the office becomes additional space that is heated

Of course if you need to get a bigger house ....

Feeling confined does not sound like genuine happy - at least from my experience I have shocked myself in that I have lost my lifelong wanderlust- after moving to somewhere I chose to live rather than where o needed to for work

I honestly genuinely like living here! We’ve got a nice flat in a nice area. We talked about moving last year after an inheritance but decided against it. I would just feel confined if this was it. We’ve got 4 UK holidays and a couple of short breaks booked this year and I can’t wait.

If you can get to that office by clean, efficient public transport that's ideal.

Public transport would take me over an hour so I won’t be doing that when the car takes 10-20 minutes. I’ll be honest and say I hate all forms of public transport anyway so it’ll take a lot to prize me out of my car.

Regarding holidays, we last went abroad in 2018 but will be going to the US next year. I’d rather go less often and do that than go for a beach holiday every year. Nothing against anyone that likes a beach holiday obviously!

@BocolateChiscuits the Volvo Polestar EPD has an interesting breakdown of CO2e emissions dependent on energy source. Admittedly these will be beyond many people's pockets, but things are heading in the right direction.

I forgot the link:

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.polestar.com/dato-assets/11286/1600176185-20200915polestarlcafinala.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjritbiwoz3AhXFh1wKHUXSC14QFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2-EgsmMV5ofjtCUT7zSpRn" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.polestar.com/dato-assets/11286/1600176185-20200915polestarlcafinala.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjritbiwoz3AhXFh1wKHUXSC14QFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2-EgsmMV5ofjtCUT7zSpRn

PENSIONs and BANK ACCOUNTS and SAVINGS !

Move them to companies with a clear ESG policy.

That is what you can do that will make the biggest difference. Forget plastic and road miles blah blah.

And if you can’t move then ask those companies what they are doing in this space and KEEP ASKING them.

Even better if you ask the work pension people!

Troidos Bank
www.triodos.co.uk/

www.bmogam.com/gb-en/intermediary/fund-page/bmo-responsible-global-equity-2-acc/

Apolos to those with no bank, pension or savings.

@88sausagefactory88 no, you are mistaken. It is important but as an individual or business the biggest thing we can do is to stop burning fossil fuels.

My pension is through my company so I can’t move it!

@Daftasabroom this morning I was listening to a podcast interview with the CEO of a company building a low carbon lithium mine in Canada (fullycharged.show/podcasts/podcast-153-planet-lithium-with-phillip-gross/), and the interviewee said he thought that car companies would start following Polestar's lead, and publish footprint details for all of their cars. It would be pretty fantastic, if the prediction did come true.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

Fair enough, but ask your pension person or team if there are ESG options in your pension fund. If they don’t know, ask them to find out.

Individuals lobbying pension and banks will make them look into keeping their funds ethical, which means not investing in fossil fuels.

Stop the oil companies being lent money. Fund renewables instead.

I have no idea, I missed the last pension review as I was on holiday. Are they likely to pay less? At the risk of sounding selfish I want the best return on my pension.

And what banks are ethical?!

Migration from climate change. It's happening insidiously.

Some countries will have more conflict wars due to unreliable weather, less crops, less productive lands.

Some countries will have more and more wildfires and forest fires- displacing people

Others will have more and more Typhoons, earthquakes, tsunamis

Counties like India will heat up and some areas will be unliveable

@MoonminMummy9 one of the ironies of climate is that has tendency to stabilise weather causing drivers such as the jet stream. Instead lots of small weather events we are fewer but longer lasting and more extreme weather events.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat ethical banks, try triodos, the co-operative bank, and monzo. I use nationwide because they're not investing in things like say arms and fossil fuels. Two of the worst are HSBC and barclays.

Not sure though if that was a genuine question or making a point!

@Reluctantadult the pensions providers are becoming increasingly demanding that their investments are ethically managed. They invest over a 20 to 40 time frame so high CO2e emitters don't make much sense.

[quote Daftasabroom]@Reluctantadult the pensions providers are becoming increasingly demanding that their investments are ethically managed. They invest over a 20 to 40 time frame so high CO2e emitters don't make much sense.[/quote]
Oh good!

@Reluctantadult I meant to add Aviva are particularly strong on ethical investment, one of their senior team is regularly on R4 (usually about 6:30am!) explaining how they put pressure on the businesses they invest in.

[quote Reluctantadult]@PinkSparklyPussyCat ethical banks, try triodos, the co-operative bank, and monzo. I use nationwide because they're not investing in things like say arms and fossil fuels. Two of the worst are HSBC and barclays.

Not sure though if that was a genuine question or making a point![/quote]
It was a bit of both but thank you for giving me some options. Out of those it would be Nationwide I think.

I'm with Lloyds at the moment as they had the best benefits for me (selfish I know!). I used to be with the Co Op, their online banking was like something out of the dark ages at the time. I used to bank with Nationwide but their insurances which used to be good, really went downhill.

Bank / Penions info:

if you can sign up to www.ethicalconsumer.org

£26 a year then you can easily choose the most ethical option for you budget. Ie I always shop n H&M as they get the highest rating in EC. Easy.

@workwoes123 I've just come back to this thread after a few weeks away including a green tech conference, so to answer your questions:

how would we Heat our homes
Air source heat pumps, these are improving all the time and, contrary the opinion of the press can be retrofitted to existing systems.
What kinds of homes could we build?
The kind of houses we should and could have been building for the last twenty years. Current new builds are better than ten years ago but there are really simple cost effective methods that could easily be incorporated. Extra insulation and improved airtightness along with mechanical ventilation with heat recovery, these would make our cheaper to run and healthier too.
How would we travel / what transport could we have?
Cycle or walk when feasible, but electric mopeds and buggies such as the Citroen Ami for short commutes and shopping. For longer distances electric vehicles. Commercial vehicles will likely be hydrogen fuel cell, possibly combined with flywheel storage like an F1 car. Inter city travel will be by urban air vehicles such as Vertical Aerospace which will make HS1 look like an expensive environmental disaster. There will be a greater increase in intercontinental passenger shipping which will combine wind assistance with hydrogen combustion and syngas. Flying will increase too but propulsion will be hydrogen fuel cell for regional aircraft, hydrogen gas turbine for short range and power to liquid sustainable aircraft fueled turbines for long range. Airbus recently ran an A380 flight on 200% ptl saf (synthetic kerosene).
What would we eat?
More healthier fruit and veg, more pulses - who doesn't love a good makhana dahl? Less meat - but better ethically farmed meat.
What industries would still operate?
The ones adapt.

You didn't ask where all the energy will come from. A combination of offshore wind and onshore solar with nuclear making up shortfalls and over production running the production of hydrogen.

The UK and other governments are investing vast sums of money and the majority of big businesses are doing likewise.

Thanks for that. I too have been thinking about this thread, and others, given that I'm sitting in France with the temps at 35° in the shade - in June.

I'm not generally given to gloom but did any speakers at the conference indicate that the technological solutions - great as they are and clearly keeping lots of people gainfully employed - will be sufficient to stop climate warming? It's fantastic, obviously, that so much skill and ingenuity is being dedicated towards finding solutions to this. Is it enough? Is it enough to feed, house, employ, educate etc 8 billion rising to 10 billion people?

Have you seen Charles Mann's TED talk "how will we survive when the population hits 10 billion?" about the wizards (scientists) and the prophets (environmentalists) and their different visions of how to tackle climate change? Clearly your conference falls right into the wizards camp: my Twitter feed is filling up with prophets (mostly epousing degrowth and other systemic changes).

Our lives will become more localised.

That's one of the key elements of a degrowth economy - working, eating, growing food, socialising, school, etc - all to be done locally. Keeping family and other important people locally. Not moving halfway across the world for fun / jobs / holidays / experiences etc. It would require such an enormous shift in values for so many in the developed world. I live in a fairly mobile, international, expat community where all these things are seen as indicators of status and achievements: being promoted to a job / sent to conferences etc on the other side of the world, families living spread across the globe, high salaries and high consuming lifestyles to go with them, eating expensive and exotic foods etc, bg houses and big cars, children off to Uni in one country, grandparents in another, etc - and then moving on every 3-5 years to do it all again somewhere else. The idea of staying in the town where you were born, close to your family and not going anywhere very much throughout your entire life just does not compute.

Unfortunately a lot of them seem to go on to say "of course to achieve this we'd need to reduce the population of the planet to 2-3 billion, tops" which is quite the catch.

I'm thinking we need the wizards and the prophets.

wheres the energy coming from to make hydrogen, and to power all the electric bikes, cars (that do nowhere near the miles that are claimed) ??