Climate change: has anyone actually said what life would have to look like to prevent catastrophic warming?

[workwoes123]

I’ve been reading articles about the very gloomy, completely ignored, most recent IPCCC report.

What I can’t find is anything saying what daily life would look like if we adopted the measures that are necessary to prevent catastrophic warming? Like, in the UK, if we were to do what’s necessary:

how would we Heat our homes?
What kinds of homes could we build?
How would we travel / what transport could we have?
What would we eat?
What industries would still operate?

The reports all talk about the need to move away from fossil fuel use. What I can’t find is anything telling me what my life will look like if / when we do this?

I know people make what they think are big changes (eating veggie, holidays in the U.K., bamboo toothbrushes etc) but I suspect all these personal lifestyle changes add up to bugger all on a global scale and that the actual impacts on our lifestyles - however modest we think our lifestyles currently are - would be massive and negative (and that’s why no-one’s talking about this aspect of it). Am I right?

[Justanotherobserver]

so what's your plan then?

I'm old so am not planning, just waiting.

[Wnikat]

Honestly, based on this board where anyone not being able to drive their kids 600 yards to school and do 3 tumble dryer loads a day is a hideous deprivation of liberty, I don't think democratic states are capable of the changes needed. At some point the effects will become so catastrophic that either civilization will be wiped out or dictatorships will take over and ruthless govern each individual's carbon consumption and the species' population to keep us from making the earth completely uninhabitable.

[Justanotherobserver]

Actually, that's not strictly true. I have no plans but am carrying on as I've lived for a long time. I've spent since 2007-ish cutting down on everything. No children or pets, no debt, haven't flown for over 20 years, live in a tiny house, do as much as possible by hand, learned practical skills.

[Daftasabroom]

@Justanotherobserver why just waiting not taking action?

[Daftasabroom]

@Justanotherobserver X post, my apologies.

Re wind turbines see ore.catapult.org.uk/stories/suswind/

[Justanotherobserver]

See also: www.masterresource.org/deep-ecology/deep-green-resistance-2/

[EmpressCixi]

It won’t be much different.
We have plant based plastic...so yes we will still have plastic.
We have hydrogen and electric transport...so yes we will still drive, train and fly. (Zero Carbon aeroplanes are in testing and dvebeopment)
Billions has been invested in all this and has been for decades.

Our lives will go through a transition so not much high tech leaps and bounds but side stepping to same lifestyle but lower carbon through green technology and practices.

[BattledoreAndShuttlecock]

Plastics don't contribute to climate change unless you burn them after use. From a pure climate change POV disposable lightweight plastics dumped in landfill are often the lowest carbon choice, although they have other serious downsides.

[KosherDill]

@mjf981

I'm fatalistic about the whole thing. I think the change required is impossible. Humans are just too greedy and selfish to do what needs be done. I think the future is bleak and am happy with my decision not to have children.

Same here.

Oddly in my circle it's the childfree who make the efforts and the childed who consume, consume with nary a thought for the future of the planet.

[Daftasabroom]

[quote Justanotherobserver]See also: www.masterresource.org/deep-ecology/deep-green-resistance-2/[/quote]
Complete utter bullshit, the author has no idea what they are talking about, it's pure tripe without a single peer reviewed paper in sight.

Sorry you need to do much better than this.

[Justanotherobserver]

Oh give over, Daftasabroom, you're not going to convert me

[BattledoreAndShuttlecock]

Convert you from what justanotherobserver? You do realise that you're linking to a "free market" site which is actively promoting increased use of fossil fuels?

[BocolateChiscuits]

@Justanotherobserver take care with what you read in the internet - check the sources are reputable and well researched.

It's thought fossil fuel companies, traditional car manufacturers and maybe even Russian troll farms have in the past tried to delay green tech by manipulating public perception on the internet. It's thought their main tactic has been spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).

There's also, terrifyingly, the fringe group apocalyptic crazies. Their logic is that if people cause climate change, the solution is to get rid of people. The last line in that DGR article you posted hinted at this.

There are absolutely lots of mainstream press articles talking about the complexities of green tech (there was an excellent article about mineral use and mining in the New Scientist this Winter) so it's not a matter of thinking this information should be surpressed because it shouldn't. But it should be presented in context and in a responsible way.

[Justanotherobserver]

Thanks @BocolateChiscuits. I'm not naive, been reading up on stuff since my 'Oh fuck' moment in 1982.

[BattledoreAndShuttlecock]

@Justanotherobserver

Thanks *@BocolateChiscuits*. I'm not naive, been reading up on stuff since my 'Oh fuck' moment in 1982.

OK, so you're not naive and you're deliberately choosing to use a source which talks about a deep green movement being "anti-human life". What's your stance on that?

[Justanotherobserver]

I used that source because the site I wanted to link to wouldn't load and that was the next in line. As for my other opinions, aren't you getting a little personal?

[BattledoreAndShuttlecock]

I agree with BocolateChiscuits that there's a lot of very questionable sites on the internet discussing climate change, and you've just linked to one of them, which makes you either naive or posting in bad faith. You've insisted that you're not naive.

[PinkSparklyPussyCat]

A few question/observations:

heat pumps instead of gas boilers (have one in my ordinary 1930s house, it's fine)
How would that work in flats? I live in a row of terraced maisonettes and from what I've read I can't see how heat pumps will work. As well as that who will pay?

everything insulated as a matter of course
My flat has solid brick walls so not easy to insulate. I know it can be done but again cost comes into it.

electric cars
Only when they are as quick to charge as petrol cars are to fill up. I won't be able to charge at home and wouldn't spend enough time in town to fully charge.

induction hobs instead of gas
Agreed. I've already got one (13amp plug in) and it's brilliant. We got it to replace a ceramic hob as they cool down quicker and we were worried the cat might walk on the ceramic one and burn his paws. I'll pretend it was for environmental reasons though!

significantly less meat, fish and dairy consumption. But people would still eat these things - it'd be more of an occasional treat and the focus would be on very high quality and high welfare, e.g. veggie most of the time with a fantastic Sunday roast once a week
This is a good idea but as as someone with a very temperamental digestive system I'm not sure what I'd eat. I can eat hardly any fruit and have to limit veg intake. I suppose at least I'd be skinny with my plate of peas!

[Daftasabroom]

@Justanotherobserver I find it strange that anyone still questions climate change or the fact that it is man made, largely due to burning fossil fuels. Mitigation and avoidance options are also becoming increasingly clear although I accept if you don't work in, or take a deep interest in sustainability you probably aren't aware of the huge strides that are being made. It's difficult and complex but reaching net zero is doable and the alternative is really pretty scary.

[Reluctantadult]

There are a couple of books on this.

What we need to do now for a zero carbon future, by Chris Goodall. Sets out ten main things we need to do to sort this mess out, that also show what life would be like. They are green energy, local grids, houses fit for purpose, electric transport, flights and shipping running on hydrogen, sustainable fashion, using less cement, eating less meat and dairy, restoring and replanting habitats to soak up co2, carbon taxation, carbon capture and storage, and a final chapter on what we can do ourselves. Green investment etc being the most important thing. So many pensions etc are still tied up in fossil fuels. This book is good, it's concisely written and easy to understand.

Other books to look at are zero carbon Britain, rising to the climate emergency by the centre for alternative technology. Has really good tables and diagrams. The information in land use change is interesting.

Honestly I am not at all worried about what life will look like at low or zero carbon, life will look good! Homes will be warm and cheap to run. Diets will be healthier. Public transport will be an actual option. The technology already exists we just need to crack the fuck on.

[PinkSparklyPussyCat]

houses fit for purpose

Fine for new builds but who's going to be paying to improve older properties? You can't expect the majority of homeowners to be able to afford it.

[DesidaCrick]

Homeowners can and do afford this kind of thing, and there have been various grants around for ages to use. I’ve used various grants for loft and cavity wall insulation. Solar panels and air source heat. People with old, poorly insulated homes will be uncomfortable unless they invest unfortunately.

[BattledoreAndShuttlecock]

@PinkSparklyPussyCat
I think the answers to heating flats are a combination of
A) district heating systems especially in urban areas or near to industry
B) hydrogen fuelled boilers (could be a solution for a minority of homes and has the advantage of acting as a battery for times when there's an oversupply of wind or solar power)
C) electric storage heaters (expensive to run but require no new technology or infrastructure)
D) compulsory triple glazing and roof insulation at the top

I think your statement that electric cars will be acceptable only when they're as quick to refill as petrol is probably not going to happen. You need a decent size and reliable charging network without the desperately disorganised problems we have at the moment, but once that's in place I suspect that anyone who can't charge their car at home, work, the supermarket, the motorway service station while having a bite to eat or on-street near their home, will probably have to choose between spending half an hour charging every few hundred miles or paying through the nose for road tax on an ageing ICE car.

I do think that some of the people who rail about the impossibility of finding somewhere to charge talk as if they currently have a petrol tap in their driveway, instead of having to drive to a specific location, fill up and pay every eight hundred miles or so (and it used to be far more often).

[Abra1d1]

Pastureland used for grazing captures carbon. Animal dung is good for the ecology of the grassland. Giving up meat and dairy isn't necessarily all good.

[Reluctantadult]

@Abra1d1

Pastureland used for grazing captures carbon. Animal dung is good for the ecology of the grassland. Giving up meat and dairy isn't necessarily all good.

It doesn't say giving up, it says reducing. Which is good for the planet and health. There is far too much livestock in this country. It often makes poor economic sense and trashes the Ecosystems - sheep in Wales and the lakes as an example. Rebirding is a brill book for setting this out.