Teen Eating Disorders support thread 3

[Girliefriendlikespuppies]

Thought I better get a new thread going!

Please come and join us if your teen is struggling with an Eating Disorder. We are a kind, supportive bunch of parents looking to support each other through the dark days of caring for a teen with an ED.

Also it’s not free

DD1 went to school for 1 lesson today. She did well, although she wobbled during the lesson when a boy got loud. They managed to get her to stay, though.

Food is still a battle ground. She's so resistant and angry. But the calories are going in. She was 45.8kg (83.3%wfh) last Tuesday. We see the psychiatrist tomorrow morning to review meds and do obs.

I've found out that there may be a quicker ASD assessment for her, so I'm waiting to hear about that.

NelleBee my DS(16) sounds quite like yours, he was average weight at birth but they bottom 10 percentile by 4 months but he was so hungry that the nurses told me to start solids at 4 months which was not the norm then. He was then probably about average most from 4-14yrs When her was about 14 he got very thin and was hardly ever hungry, I had to keep asking and offering but he rarely felt like eating. Anyway he has now slowed in height growth and he is back at normal /average size. The reason that I never considered an eating disorder for him is that mentally he didn't have the food fears, irrational thoughts or negative self view. He just wasn't hungry I have no idea why, a few of his friends were the same at that time.
The problem arises if they don't eat enough and let themselves slip to below a healthy weight for them and then the thoughts would start...... Luckily that never happened to DS and I was just a constant nag offering food to him. He eats properly now no issue.

@myrtleWilson I love your idea of a challenge jar and using that to tackle fears, introduce variety, and gradually working eating into normal life (not like the rigid plan my DD is following now where everything must be identical to the day before....exhausting). I think I will give it a go. Thanks for sharing

We met CAMHS today and it's decided that DD needs to have more nutritionally dense snacks (ie higher calories). Waiting for them to send me the list as DD won't accept anything that's not written down on her program...

@Valleyofthedollymix - two that we've watched are Ro Recovering
www.youtube.com/channel/UClzpIN3KVkoKI-mGloXlT7g/videos

and Dora www.youtube.com/channel/UC96LnH9LV--8-uJ5PZZm8fQ

Ro's mom is often heard in the background of Ro's videos and she's very good at affirmative support - I have basically copied many of her phrases!

@Lougle I meant to ask - how were the rabbits? Hope you hear something about the ASD assessment.

@SoTiredNeedHoliday - hope the challenge jar goes well for you - it does seem to help psychologically for DD as it is the challenge jar deciding to eat x rather than her iyswim? What snacks are CAMHS thinking of?

@Lottsbiffandsmudge thanks, I shall look into that app. It sounds like a great idea.

@Lougle I hope you get the quicker ASD assessment
@SoTiredNeedHoliday hope my DS ends up like yours with no eating issues. It would be one less thing to worry about with him.

I wish I understood his thought processes. Refused to come for dinner, didn’t want it, wasn’t hungry, too full to eat, he’s fine the weight he is so I can stop obsessing over his food blah blah blah. I refused to give up and after a twenty minute battle he finally sat at the table where he promptly ate 3 sausages and two slices of eggy bread. So clearly he was hungry or at least not too full to eat.

@NelleBee good work! Thats basically what I had to do for a year or so. For my DS I think it was him trying to show his independence, that he could make his own choices etc but in the end he worked out he wanted to and needed to eat.

we had a tiny win as DD had a slice of banana bread last night first time shes has eaten anything like that in at least 6 months. Particularly good effort as the day started with her refusing breakfast and morning snack

Morning all, life's been back to pretty busy here and there has been the odd time where it's almost felt normal 😳

Dd is doing brilliantly with eating her dinners, she eats a large dinner and a big pudding without comment every night this last week. In my estimation just that meal alone would be 1400 calories. I think bring back at school has definitely helped her mentally, I've also put her on some new multivitamins, I'll attach a pic. Not sure if it's a coincidence but she def seems to have been more relaxed since starting them....

I suggested a challenge jar to dd and she said no way 🙄 still a little way to go then.

Blimey @Girliefriendlikespuppies how on earth do you create a 1400 cal meal? I'm awestruck by other people's calorie-cooking abilities.

@myrtleWilson thanks so much for those suggestions, we'll take a look though I don't know that she'll absorb. One of the people she admires - Annaarcherfitness - has come out now and said she had an eating disorder and all those photos of her showing her abs were as a result of it but it doesn't seem to have sunk in.

Appointment with the therapist and she seemed to have lost weight by their scales. FFS. We're now onto Ensure instead of the bedtime snack (thank god, that was the worst for us) and she's got an appointment next week to meet the psychiatrist for an Olanzapine prescription.

I've got a banging migraine that came on yesterday and won't shift. Not helped by going to the wrong clinic town today. 20 minutes waiting, a frantic phonecall, then 30 minutes driving to the other town.

DD1 has put on 900g over the last 10 days. Now 84.88% WFH. The Psychiatrist says she thinks she will be able to maintain at 90%! I asked why not 100% and she said that she thinks DD1 will be on the lower end.

I told her how awful every meal is. She has increased her fluoxetine, as she wants the olanzapine to be short term. If that doesn't work, she'll increase the olanzapine.

Valley I think we've been fortunate that throughout this whole nightmare dd has always eaten well at dinner time and I've gradually worked out ways to exploit this!! For example Ystd she had a large plate of rice and lentil dahl (made with oil) half an avocado and a large naan bread. Lougle is better on the calories that me but I'd estimate a good 800-900 calories worth. For pudding she had a large portion of chocolate sauce cake and two scoops of ice cream, again an estimate would be 500 calories.

Like I said I'm fortunate that she will eat a large amount at this time of day, quite often a lot more than me! However I am making up for no snacks (well one tiny snack which she mostly spits out 🙄) or supper which she still refuses.

Have you thought about getting the maxijule (?sp) to try and add to your dds food/drink? It's apparently tasteless and odourless.

I popped into Dun Elm today as wanted to pick up some larger bowls for dds breakfast and annoyingly now I've got them home have realised although they look bigger they actually hold the same amount 🙄

Forgot to attach the pic of the vitamins last time so will try again.

Hope your head eases soon Lougle , that's great on the weight gain. I'd ignore any talk of settling for 90% wfh tbh...

I'd agree with your estimates, Girlie.

I was quite surprised at the 90% talk. I'm also not completely sure her weight was accurate. For a start, I asked whether they'd checked her height, and the psych said 'yes, 164.5cm'. I said 'that's odd - it was 165.2cm a couple of weeks ago...'. They went and checked again, 164.5cm. Then DD1 said 'let's try this one!' so they went into a different room and she was 165.2cm again!

Back to her weight, she's only put on 900g. Now that's not to be sniffed at, but she has been putting on ~2kg. They said she was 46.7kg. When we got home (granted she'd had a triple cheeseburger with fries and strawberry lemonade from McDonald's) I weighed her on my scales. 47.9kg. That's a hell of a difference. She was weighed on my home scales last Tuesday and was 45.8kg, so that would be a 2.1kg gain in 10 days, which is more like we've been used to. So I'll officially record 46.7kg, but I'm a bit skeptical.

@Lougle the weights are so tricky, right? I've been ding the weight at home as I want a standardized set of scales etc. DH helps me and she stands backward. Always weighed first thing in the morning in PJ's after loo but before breakfast. CAMHS seems happy to take my numbers.
DD has been given a target of 90%WFH too. Hers though is based on all her historical weights and heights from the baby books and the weights and rights at other times in primary school with NHS, they sort of predicted out that she won't be the typical (@100%) which sounds right to me as we aren't the tallest family around etc. We're only at 78%wfh so we've sooo far to go

The whole different scales different weight thing would freak me out.... I am in some ways glad that COVID and a shielding KW means I have always weighed at home. Clothes, time of day, proximity to meals etc could have a big difference I guess. And my DD would have hated to be dragged to a clinic every week. We went to have her height down recently as I can’t do that reliably at home (back of the under stairs cupboard door and a 30cm ruler wasn’t really cutting it) and she bitched and moaned the whole time....
I find the whole 90% thing a bit odd tbh....it still sounds like your DD is in the thick of things @lougle we are now 97% and the awfulness has eased...
Having said that I am getting increased kick back over eating. Especially the after school snack and eve supper. I have tried to think of ways to increase breakfast and morning snack so she cal have left all concertinered into the 4.5 hours after school but she is so resistant to trying new things and she can’t have nuts in school which is what her after school snack is....sigh..
I am secretly dreading the maintenance bit as apparently it’s really hard.... hopefully a few more weeks of gains here to give me some breathing space.
Impressive eve meals @Girliefriendlikespuppies my biggest one (mince beef pie, mash, peas and carrots is only 850. But then my DD would not eat a pudding liked that. Still stuck at 100g of Greek yog 5 months on...

Snap @SoTiredNeedHoliday we weigh like that (PJs, after we first thing in moRning) too...

Yeah it's swings and roundabouts I suppose lots and because dd will only eat breakfast, lunch and dinner plus pudding I've had to really focus on packing the calories in. I'm aware I'm fortunate that dd will happily eat foods that a lot of kids with anorexia would not eat in a million years. Tonight's dinner was pasta with red pesto, cheese on top, half an avocado and half a garlic bread!! Must be 800 calories i'd of thought (the garlic bread alone is 340 calories 😳)

I've not even thought about maintenance weight yet 😫 I think dd will have to go above 100% wfh though, the dietician worked out dd has been on the 75th centile for weight and height since she was a toddler so a bit above average.

The different heights and weights on different measures and scales really frustrates me. Especially as my measurements put him as underweight but theirs put him at a healthy weight and now he thinks he is healthy. I think crucially though he weighs exactly the same on my scales as when I first joined here which I think was about a month ago. But no one seems to care.
He hasn’t eaten anything since he came home from school, have not been successful in getting him to eat dinner today. He ate dinner yesterday so apparently doesn’t need dinner today,

Hey lovely people! Please can I join? I need some advice about my DD(15)....
Over the past few months she has lost a significant amount of weight and DH and I have been very concerned. DD also missed her period last month and has not had one since. I have asked her countless times if she has been actively trying to lose weight, if she is skipping meals and I have asked her to weigh herself and tell me what she is. She has repeatedly given me a number a few lbs less than what I know she used to be months and months ago which didn’t seem to tally with how much she looks like she has lost. But I didn’t want to go so far as to watch her weighing herself as I felt it was invasive for her. And of course I wanted to trust her. She has told me about numerous friends that have issues around eating (a good handful of her friendship group) but I always felt that it was a way of her deflecting away from herself. She is also exercising every day, a mixture of HIIT workouts and a couple of runs a week (once of them fairly longish at around 7k and with me).
Anyway the upshot is that on Friday night I said enough was enough and that I wanted her to weigh herself in front of me for my own piece of mind. She got extremely anxious and tearful and tried to guilt-trip me in to not doing it. When she realised how determined I was she relented but said she wanted me to read something on her phone first that she had written in preparation because otherwise she knew that she’d just lie to me again.
So it’s all come out. For months now she has been severely restricting her food intake. She has lost over a stone in weight, which is a stone less than what she has been telling me she is. She has been allowing herself just her evening meal and trying to stick to between 300 to 500 calories a day. Since she returned to school after lockdown she has been not eating her lunch, either giving it or throwing it away. She says that now she physically cannot eat at school because of the extreme anxiety she feels eating in front of her friendship group. She says that she has “safe” foods that she allows herself to eat because she likes them but that eating them comes at a cost. She allows herself to eat her dinner as long as she hasn’t eaten during the day. But at weekends when she is out and about meeting friends she can often have the opportunity to not eat anything for the entire day, telling me that she has eaten when she’s been out when she hasn’t.
Her periods have stopped. She is cold all the time. She feels constant anxiety around food.
She seems immensely relieved that I now know and has wanted to talk about it a lot over the weekend, which I am encouraged by. The floodgates have opened. She has also allowed me to see her naked twice now since she told me as she says now that I know she doesn’t feel the need to hide her weight loss. I haven’t seen her out of her clothes for a long time. She says she is tired of feeling like this and wants to get better and wants to get help from a doctor. That is my immediate and urgent next step is to get her an appointment with our GP surgery.
But in the meantime what should I do? She is concerned that we are going to start force feeding her doughnuts and while I says that of course we won’t do that, I said that the immediate goal is that she has to start eating lunch again at least. So yesterday after she came back from her Dance she had a bowl of soup. This is what she felt okay to eat. She wouldn’t have any bread with it. Then last night we had a planned family takeaway. She has been looking forward to this all week but usually she would have “allowed” herself it as she would have eaten nothing all day. She was anxious eating it last night because she’d had lunch but she did it and she ate a good amount. She says she wants to go slowly, taking one step at a time so as not to feel overwhelmed. And that makes sense to me. But I guess my question is is it enough? Or do we need to be forcing a meal plan now? She says that if the doctor says that’s what we need to do then she will accept it but she’d rather wait to see them before putting anything like that in place. She is worried about eating, worried that once she starts again she won’t be able to stop and that she will get really fat. But she knows that ultimately she can’t go in like this. She is worried about eating her lunch at school again, under the scrutiny of her peer group. She doesn’t feel able to confide in any of her closest friends. She says that a number of them also have some issues and she doesn’t want to trigger them or even generate some competitiveness. She has confided in another girl who has had her own mental health demons in the past and confided in DD. She is suggesting that her and DD go somewhere quiet away from
DD’s usual group just for her to eat her lunch with someone that knows and understands. I think this is a good idea as the immediate task is getting DD eating her lunch again at school.

Wow. Sorry for the essay! It feels good just to write it down!

@Rollergirl11
Hello! I am so sorry to hear of your daughter's struggles. You should really congratulate yourself on spotting the warning signs and also for making your daughter feel confident enough to confide in you. Try to keep all this communication open. Eating Disorders are not about food - they are a means of coping with some element of the sufferer's life that feels out of control / unmanageable. Try to encourage your DD to open up about her worries underneath the food... what purpose does the ED serve in her life? Is there an emotional pain / worry that it is numbing?

Take a look at the BEAT website to prepare yourself www.beateatingdisorders.org.uk/ and also have a look at seedeatingdisorders.org.uk/page/meal-planning-bon-appetit

Also have a look at the Orri instagram page - they are a privately run day care centre but host lives and have resources on their website which may help www.instagram.com/orri_uk/

In terms of food - your GP should make a referral to CAMHS who will put you in touch with a dietitian for a meal plan. However, you really should be looking at 3 meals a day (plus 2/3 snacks). I understand that you are probably concerned about pushing your daughter away by insisting on 3 meals - but good options for breakfast include porridge with nuts and fruit or scrambled eggs on toast. Lunch does need to be more substantial than soup and needs to have a source of carbohydrate and protein in there.

In terms of friends - I would definitely get in touch with the school ASAP. Are the other girls getting support for their EDs? The other girl could be a source of support if she has recovered - but be careful as EDs can be very competitive and it could have the opposite effect.

Sending you both lots of love and strength.

Hi @Rollergirl11, your DD has got herself into a right pickle, hasn't she? (That's a medical term, by the way - DD1's Consultant used it with her at this stage!)

If you were to PM me your DD's height, weight and date of birth, I can use my 'Instant weight for height' app to tell you how underweight she is. Weight for height is the measure used with eating disorders, rather than pure BMI.

If she has been restricting for months to 300-500 calories per day, is cold and missing periods, I would urge you to take her to A&E. They should use the MARSIPAN (Management of Really Sick Patients with Anorexia Nervosa) checklist to assess her.<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.hpft.nhs.uk/media/1425/foi-2363-30-11-2016-eating-disorder-service-junior-marsipan-risk-table-attachment.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiahcCq36rwAhXQURUIHbt3AxUQFjABegQICRAC&sqi=2&usg=AOvVaw3WU_WhQvFt4qCOtQFCagr9" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">This is a user friendly version

If she was admitted to hospital, they would monitor her blood pressure and heart rate, take blood to assess whether her electrolytes are normal, and start a slow refeeding plan. They normally start at 1000 calories, then move to 1500 sand on from there.

Anorexia nervosa is an illness that becomes more entrenched the longer it is allowed to exist, so you need to hit it hard.

Hi @Rollergirl11. I posted on here about my daughter with almost exactly the same circumstances as you a fortnight or so ago.
I still think we have a way to go, but school were very helpful.
I wonder whether ED have increased with the stress and powerlessness of COVID.
My daughter has started asking for gluten free stuff all the time and she is vegan. I suspect this is mostly about the ED.

Thanks for the replies so far, they are really helpful. 🙂
@Lougle I don’t think she has been restricting to those calories all of this time but certainly they are the limits she has in place currently. But she has just told me that she has actually missed 2 periods rather than just the one (last period was end of Feb) so the situation is still evolving. I will PM you her stats.

@Zzzexhaustedzzz DD says that it started during lockdown where she had time to kill and spent too much time watching skinny pretty girls on TikTok and social media and not seeing real people and the reality of real bodies in real life. She compared herself to these girls and the seed took root. So she started restricting but could only do so much as she was at home and under our watchful gaze. Then when she got back to school she was provided the opportunity to skip meals without us knowing and it has escalated quickly from there. She said as soon as she was able to see her peers getting changed for PE in the changing rooms she quickly realised that she was far thinner than her friends but by then it was about obsessively restricting calories and control.

I have PM you with her stats, @Rollergirl11. I genuinely think you should take her to A&E today, tbh. She could be in serious danger with the information you have given, and ironically it is the refeeding after restricting that can cause the problems medically, so you really need a professional to monitor and guide it.

Thanks lougle, certainly given us something to think about! 😱

Hi @Rollergirl11 sorry to hear about your DD. I obvs don’t know the stats that @Lougle has seen but it sounds like things are quite serious.
If she has been restricting to 500 cals or less a day I would echo lougles suggestion to go to A&E. Print off the MARZIPAN guidelines and take them with you to make sure they do all the checks. You need to,make sure her bloods are OK and her heart not in danger. Don’t get fobbed off until they have done a thorough check (blood tests, ecg, no and heart rate on sitting and standing). You need to,make sure she isn’t at immediate physical risk or at risk of refeeding syndrome.
Then
As a min and whilst you wait for a GP appointment you need to take her out of school and stop the exercise. My DD is exercise compulsive and although she was allowed to exercise throughout her recovery I wish now we had just stopped it. Her exercise plan was formulated by her elite football coach and we had to stick to it religiously and not let any extra sneak in (which was easier said than done)... my DD never restricted as much as yours tho (got down to 1500,cals but was still in a massive deficit due to exercise) and any activity could be really dangerous for her, it doesn’t matter if she is ‘clinically underweight’ or not on those few cals per day exercise is still dangerous.
She cannot go to school if she is not eating there. I know that is really hard to hear but the energy they use at school is something she can’t afford. She needs to be kept at home with someone at all times who can monitor her eating and exercise.
Check if you can self refer to your local ED clinic (often through CAMHS) and get a referral made ASAP.
Before you go to the GP call in advance to talk through your concerns. Although your DD says she wants help (which is a great step btw) the ED will try anything to get out of being ‘rumbled’ and you need to make sure the GP is aware of all the background. Tell him everything you said above. As she is 15 she could ask to be seen alone and you need to make sure all your concerns are taken into account.
And then yes you need to push food. Fats and carbs. The ED will protest massively. Your DD will appear anxious, angry, violent, hysterical, all of the above. Go onto to Eva Musbys website for tips on helping her eat despite her fear. You cannot get food into someone with an Ed without the meltdowns. It isn’t possible. Trying to never upset the sufferer is only enabling the ED.
Please let us know how things go.