Welsh names

[Enwau]

I've just been reading through baby names threads..

There was a comment about non-welsh people using Welsh names being cultural appropriation... !

I didn't want to derail the thread any more than it had been so thought I'd ask here what people think about those with zero Welsh heritage or connections using Welsh names for their offspring?

I'm undecided. It's nice to see Welsh names out there but I also dislike nouveau spellings and different pronunciations ... But that's just me being precious.

Plenty of people say it properly, but I'm not able to move back to Wales right now.
I'm sure someone with the inclination could learn, but colleagues and other people outside Wales generally probably don't have the inclination.

Not sure what your point is really. There are always lazy people. Who probably mis pronounce anything not just lesser known names.

The post being dismissed as a load of rubbish is more of an issue than people getting my name pronunciation wrong.

It's not that they are lazy, they might be, but from my experience either they can't hear or can't replicate the sound, or they don't care.

There are some really weird attitudes on this thread. Pronunciations vary considerably depending on accent within Wales, as they do everywhere. I grew up in South Wales and knew loads of Rhians pronounced "Reeun", Rhyses pronounced "Reece", Dylans pronounced "Dillun", Bethans pronounced "Bethun" etc - including some with Welsh speaking parents. Were they "wrong"? Even on the Welsh name threads on here you will get some people saying for e.g. Eira is pronounced Ay-ra and others saying it's Eye-ra (as far as I can tell that's a north / south difference). It's normal to pronounce names differently in different accents. I wouldn't pronounce a Scottish person's name in a Scottish accent for example - it would sound like I was taking the piss! I can understand Welsh speakers' protectiveness of the language but I don't like the gatekeeping.

@DaNiYmaOHyd

Are you referring to the bit you've quoted below?

I don't say it's a load of rubbish.

@sunglassesonthetable , no, your post of 25/11/2022 18:25.

@3ormorecharacters , on my part it's because the original pronunciation gets lost as the name becomes mainstream. If I wanted to name DC Alun or Enid, I'd probably struggle to get the original Welsh pronunciation from anyone who didn't speak Welsh. I don't think that saying the names as Al-in and En-id would involve using a welsh accent.

^*They're definitely learnable... when people bother.
You can't teach someone to say sounds that they can't hear, or can't get their tongues around, and most people won't understand why you mind.**^
^
Omg. Please stop talking for everyone else. It's amazing anyone has ever learned to pronounce another language.^

As Above @DaNiYmaOHyd

I didn't say your post was a load of rubbish. But I do think you were being incredibly negative about learning and pronouncing an unfamiliar language. People do learn different languages and names.

Though clearly as you have said, many struggle with the pronunciation of your name. Doesn't mean everyone will.

Yeah, I always have to stop myself from getting involved on some of the name threads where people insist there is only one correct pronunciation of certain Welsh names. I also know people who speak Welsh as their first language who pronounce their names, even when speaking Welsh, in the way that some people will insist on MN is the incorrect, English way. It just depends where you're from!

With regards to using Welsh names... I don't think anyone would bat an eye at an English couple calling their child something mainstream like Megan, but if you went for something extremely obscure and very obviously Welsh, I'd probably think it odd for an English couple with no welsh connections to use. I'm not sure I've ever even known anyone who'd be offended, though. But I guess I'd just find it peculiar.

on my part it's because the original pronunciation gets lost as the name becomes mainstream. If I wanted to name DC Alun or Enid, I'd probably struggle to get the original Welsh pronunciation from anyone who didn't speak Welsh. I don't think that saying the names as Al-in and En-id would involve using a welsh accent.

Oh what's your son's name?

Al- in

Oh Alun?

No, Al-in. 😀

Oh Al-in. I see.

🤷‍♀️

@sunglassesonthetable , Explain to me, or show me, how to do it, and I could try.

The post I was referring to came across as being downright dismissive.
FWIW, I have tried to learn how to say some sounds I'm not familiar with and not managed it, or at least not to a level where I'm confident that I've nailed it. An example could be the 'gl' sound in Puglia. Italian friend doesn't say it as Poolya.

We are English but moved to Wales before DD was born. The Welsh people we meet are always delighted that we gave her a Welsh name, I think they’re a bit surprised when they hear our English accents. It’s easy to pronounce and is spelt the correct way.

Not Alun or Enid, Meinir. Explain to me how to teach people to not say it as Mat-near, Mainey or Men-ear.

*Explain to me, or show me, how to do it, and I could try.

The post I was referring to came across as being downright dismissive.
FWIW, I have tried to learn how to say some sounds I'm not familiar with and not managed it, or at least not to a level where I'm confident that I've nailed it. An example could be the 'gl' sound in Puglia. Italian friend doesn't say it as Poolya.*

I'm sure the Italians don't care. It's the trying that counts surely?

And yes I felt you were being very negative.

May not Mat, obvs.

Not Alun or Enid, Meinir. Explain to me how to teach people to not say it as Mat-near, Mainey or Men-ear.

@DaNiYmaOHyd

No idea.

Some will get it. Some will not. I've learnt to say it.

I care. If I want to learn to speak a language, I'd like to get the sounds right.
I'd rather get called something else than a bad approximation. A miss is as good as a mile.

I might have been negative of me but it's was an observation, and didn't deserve a dismissive response. As you've subsequently posted, Some will get it. Some will not. I've learnt to say it. You probably learnt it from hearing people say it.

Back to Italian, I was trying to find if a certain pronunciation of an italian name was correct. I asked several italians and they all said it was not an italian pronunciation. I asked another italian and he said 'yes, but it's only in one specific location that they say it that way'. Italian is different from Welsh though as from what I understand there are several Italian languages. The people saying it wasn't an Italian pronunciation weren't wrong. Welsh has dialects but only the one language.

I'm not sure really what your point is other than I pissed you off 2 months ago.

I heard a Welsh name on the radio today. I didn't quite catch the name, but it was someone with a North Walian accent and sounded like a Welsh speaker
The name sounded something like '-elva Khan'. I went back to the piece and listened again about 3 times and still couldn't hear it clearly. Had a look at the list of Senedd Members and think it was Heledd Fychan!

Not a criticism really, as the broadcaster had obviously tried to not mangle it, but the stress was on the wrong syllables.

It's something that I have found with my own name - people put on a strange accent like they are trying to say two french words.

Something like Ma-ri-ANNE Rod-REE (Marian Rhodri - not my name but that sort of thing)

Just heard 'Rinn ap Yo-reth' on the radio, I think they meant Rhun ap Iorwerth

I'm with you. 😂

Well the Guardian had an article about him, but a photo of Adam Price so that shows you the level of their understanding really.

I am English, my husband was born and raised in Wales to English parents.

We live in Wales and have a DD. As she was born here, I consider her Welsh and as such, she has a Welsh name.

Not appropriation - appreciation :)