Welsh names

[Enwau]

I've just been reading through baby names threads..

There was a comment about non-welsh people using Welsh names being cultural appropriation... !

I didn't want to derail the thread any more than it had been so thought I'd ask here what people think about those with zero Welsh heritage or connections using Welsh names for their offspring?

I'm undecided. It's nice to see Welsh names out there but I also dislike nouveau spellings and different pronunciations ... But that's just me being precious.

A lifetime of hearing names mispronounced. A lot of the sounds in Welsh don't have equivalents in English. You can get approximations, but they're not quite right.
If you hadn't heard of Huw Edwards, would you know how to say Huw? I can remember working at a place close to the Welsh borders, and my colleagues were talking about Hoo.

That kind of boils down to " I know the right way and most other ( non welsh ) people get it wrong ( imo ) " I don't think that's a good enough reason tbh.

I have a very Welsh name, and my parents are very English. It's been the bane of my 40+ years existence tbh, because as lovely as it is, no-one can say it or spell it.

My dad was a very proud Welsh man (8th generation at least) born and raised and he gave me a very Welsh name despite me being born and raised in England.
I have also given one of my DC a very Welsh name (my dad's middle name and his dad's name) in remberence/honour of my late father/family and i love the name anyway.
If you met me you would wonder why someone in southern England with an english accent has given their child a very Welsh name and accuse me of appropriation but I think I have every right to use that name.
And to be honest I think people even without welsh roots should be able to use the names if they so wish, as long as they pronounce and spell them correctly. Its that age old debate of where is the line between appropriation and appreciation? Life would be boring if we only stuck to things that come from our own culture surely?
Also how do we decide who is eligible to use it without it being called appropriation?
For example, do you have to be born in Wales yourself, or have at least 3 generations born in Wales, or what if someone was 1/16th Welsh - are they Welsh enough? Who is the arbitor that decides where the line is drawn?

The vast majority of names have their routes outside England. A name is going to sound different with an English accent than a welsh, Scottish or Irish one. Don’t really see the problem, people from all over the uk use names which didn’t originate in their country!

You don't get it. The pronunciation is language-specific.
I could use a name like Chaim or Yael as the example, so it is nothing to do with being welsh-speaking.
If I'd never seen or heard the name, how would I say it?
If I'd only heard it, would I know how to spell it?
Would I ask about heritage?
Would I think it a bit strange if they introduced themselves as Hime or Yale?

You don't get it. The pronunciation is language-specific.
I could use a name like Chaim or Yael as the example, so it is nothing to do with being welsh-speaking.
If I'd never seen or heard the name, how would I say it?
If I'd only heard it, would I know how to spell it?
Would I ask about heritage?
Would I think it a bit strange if they introduced themselves as Hime or Yale?

I don't understand how you don't think that people couldn't find out for starters.

Plenty of Welsh people speak very little Welsh. The re-focus on the language is fairly recent. Are they allowed to pronounce their name how they like? Are they allowed to use their ancestors names? If you look up the origins of names the vast amount aren’t From the uk so should we stop using all of them?

@sunglassesonthetable , I never said people couldn't find out, but with some names, the anglicised versions have become mainstream. Someone with no ear for language would probably struggle with Chaim because the sound doesn't have an english equivalent.

@BungleandGeorge , origin and language are not the same. It's not a case of saying you should only pronounce Diana the greek way or something, because Diana (as in Princess Di), is a name of greek origin, not a Greek-language name.

For a start I'd be amazed if anyone could definitively trace their ancestry to prove a purely Celtic bloodline.

I was born in Wales and have lived here almost all of my life. My parents were English. My dad's job moved to SE Wales from Birmingham before I was born and I was brought up in the same culture and community as the other Welsh children around me. My husband's family have been in the Valleys for generations but his paternal line is originally from Wiltshire, would you object to him calling himself Welsh? What about our children?

Focusing on ethnicity as a determiner of Welshness is especially concerning given how many multi-ethnicity communities we have here in Wales.

I was going to say that I prefer to see Welsh names spelled and pronounced correctly, but I have no objection to them being used outside of Wales. Now I wonder if I'm not Welsh enough to have an opinion...

never said people couldn't find out, but with some names, the anglicised versions have become mainstream. Someone with no ear for language would probably struggle with Chaim because the sound doesn't have an english equivalent.

Yep, You're correct. But what's your point ?

Only give a name if you can do the received cultural pronunciation? Stay in your lane name wise?

SirVixofVixHall
*If a child has two English parents then they aren’t culturally or ethnically Welsh, wherever they grow up. Wales isn’t just a different location from England, it is culturally and linguistically another country, Welsh people are Celts, not Anglo Saxons.
My children would have been Welsh, even if they had grown up in another country.*

Awful post.

Probably. There are so many names to choose from, why would you pick on from a culture that isn't yours, or that you can't say properly, or that will be a PITA for your DC.

Something like Dewi, why not use David instead? If you are going to say Mair as Mya, why not spell it that way?

If you look at ancestor's names, I think the registrars were strict in the past, so even if your ancestors were called something like Mair and Dafydd, they'd be registered as Mary and David.

I don't think it's a bloodline thing at all. You don't have to have Welsh parents to be Welsh, you can come from anywhere, it's about how you identify, where you live, what are your cultural connections as an individual. I know many, many people who were born outside Wales who are Welsh- They've moved here, they've respected that it's a different culture, have learned the language, have embraced Welshness (which is a vast, vast culture, I'm not talking about chapel people living in the hills here- Welshness is urban too.)

I would define cultural appropriation as something that mainly happens when a mainstream, majority culture borrows elements from a culture they them themselves have oppressed/suppressed. Unfortunately, this is relevant when it comes England and Wales (as it is with Britain and many, many countries around the world.)

I think that it's a burden to give a child a name that some will consider cultural appropriation, even if you yourself don't see it that way- After all, it's not you that has to live with the name, it's them.

I’m Welsh, live in Wales, English friends have a son born and bred here and he identifies strongly as Welsh. I’d feel uncomfortable about telling him he isn’t’.

For a start I'd be amazed if anyone could definitively trace their ancestry to prove a purely Celtic bloodline.

According to Ancestry.co.Uk my ethnicity is 100% Welsh, fwiw.

*Probably. There are so many names to choose from,

Something like Dewi, why not use David instead? If you are going to say Mair as Mya, why not spell it that way?

If you look at ancestor's names, I think the registrars were strict in the past, so even if your ancestors were called something like Mair and Dafydd, they'd be registered as Mary and David.*

Because you find it interesting or inspiring, exciting or beautiful or romantic or cute, or you'd like to honour or keep the memory of someone or you love the history or the culture.

why would you pick on from a culture that isn't yours, or that you can't say properly, or that will be a PITA for your DC.

You presume.

If you look at the top 100 names in England and Wales there’s quite a number which are neither English nor welsh. So I guess people choose names they like or they have a connection with. Many welsh names are also used so regularly elsewhere that are they actually ‘Welsh’ or international? Same with so many names from all over the place. Your examples are names used across the globe with spellings and pronunciations which vary according to country. That’s not really the same as using a name which is only welsh in origin.

Cardiff is choc full of Welsh children with parents from all over the globe.

They can have any name they want. Including welsh ones.

Just like all the welsh children who only speak English and maybe don't pronounce the nuances of a welsh name.

People choose their children's names for lots of reasons.

@BungleandGeorge , in which countries are Mair, Dewi, Huw and Dafydd used so much that they are international names?
(I'm aware that Mair is a surname as well)

@sunglassesonthetable , as someone with a name that is unpronounceable if you don't speak Welsh, I can tell you that I am not presuming it's a PITA.

Parents can call their children whatever first names they want to, assuming that the registrar allows it, but I don't have to think it is ok.

@DaNiYmaOHyd of course not, thats the premise of a discussion.

Interested to know why though.

as someone with a name that is unpronounceable if you don't speak Welsh, I can tell you that I am not presuming it's a PITA.

Luckily many welsh names are not so niche.

And can be learnt.

They're definitely learnable... when people bother. We had a family friend whose son was called Meredydd, in England. The best he tended to get was Meredith (stressed like the girls' name) - at worst, it was stuff like Meredeed or Merdid.

Why what?