Considering donor eggs - any advice?

[FlutteryButtery2]

Hi everyone,

we have just had a super failed ivf cycle - failed transfer and nothing to store out of 5 fertilised embryos

Were due to meet with our consultant in a few days time and have been discussing options going forward

I think we will try another round using my eggs and his sperm but odds are against us really

I suggested we maybe think about trying to use donor eggs and his sperm which would probably give us a better chance at “conceiving”

Has anyone done this and what is the process?

I would like to try and carry but if that fails we would also look into surrogacy - obviously last chance option sort of thing

Just don’t know what to think about, clinic telling me to be positive and it won’t come to that is driving me insane - just want to hear from people who know what it’s like to walk this sh*y path

Thanks as always

Was that your first and only ivf round? It’s quite “normal” to have nothing to freeze, and for the transferred embryo to not take. Disappointing but normal.

It would be quite a jump to go straight from that to donor eggs - unless you’re at an age where your own eggs are not recommended?

What were the grading of quality of the eggs? Did you use ICSI? What’s the mobility of his sperm like?

Im all for using donor if needed but id be looking at the answers to those questions first

I’ve had three rounds of IVF - first one took, second failed third one took.

It’s a bloody roller coaster as you are pumped full of hormones and its hard work

Hope your ok 💐

Sorry it wasn’t three full rounds. We got quite a large batch of the first one - after another clinic telling me I had no egg reserve left 🙈

Was first round, have another booked

Dont get my post wrong, I’m not jumping straight to this. It was just something to consider and ask about in our appointment

I’m 36 he’s 44
I have pcos and endo
Sperm poor mobility but clinic said fine for icsi

We used icsi and embryos didn’t get to blastocyst stage they got stuck at compacted morula and were degenerate on day 6 - all I can find online is that’s usually due to egg quality hence considering donor eggs

Obviously we’ll know more - maybe - after our appointment but it’s difficult to get to speak with a consultant so would like to get all questions and considerations in line before the appointment

I’m ok mostly, don’t know why it hit me hard as after 9 years of ttc without even a sniff of a pregnancy it’s just another month of being unsuccessful
But we’re lucky to be able to try again so fingers crossed I at least end up being able to freeze some

thanks again :)

Sorry to hear this op. Three rounds under my belt.

Please bear in mind of course your clinic will say stay positive and offer you all sorts of alternatives. They are a profit making business and it's in their interest you keep going.

I decided not to continue and not to do donor anything for ethical and moral reasons mainly.

No one ever says this but it's ok to walk away from IVF at any stage and not keep going. I know you're not there yet, but bear in mind for future.

I see woman on their tenth, eleventh round and think it's addictive, like gambling. Just one more go and then another ..

I actually think it's quite helpful to think about what you're willing to do and where your red lines may be.

IVF is long and arduous and expensive and it feels like everyone else has success first time.

I would recommend getting some unbiased counselling (not through your clinic) and really thinking about all of the implications of donor eggs and so on.

Good luck.

I am really sorry you are going through this and I hope it works out for you.

Unfortunately surrogacy is ethically and morally wrong. It harms both the surrogate and the baby. I hope you don't get o the point where you have to make that decision.

@FlutteryButtery2 read a lot, look at the forums/discussions and try to see what you think of all this. Explore positive and negative situations - this will help to understand your feelings towards this. People will have different opinions about this, don’t get upset.

Thank you everyone

@GingerFox2021 that is exactly what I am going to do but I’m sure you know as well as I do sometimes it’s hard to trust what is online sometimes. I do feel that everything to do with fertility is sickeningly positive and gives the impression that everyone will end up having a baby no matter what.

@CornedBeef451 thank you. Something will work out in the end. I’m fully aware it might not be what we want but that’s life I suppose
I’m interested to know what you mean by harming the surrogate and the baby?

@Coppercup yes we’ve had this discussion.
I’m not up for endless rounds, don’t want to put myself through it. But obviously want to make sure we’ve tried

Interested in your views on donor egg/sperm if you don’t mind explaining. Would be helpful - can pm if you don’t want to post it publicly

Sorry you are going through this - it sucks but know that you are not alone

We're considering it too and have our consultation next week. We haven't had loads of IVF rounds - like Coopercup says you hear of people on their 10th round which sometimes makes me feel like we're giving up too soon. But we've been told we have very small chance of any own egg round working (based mostly on our ages and my low AMH). We never had anything to freeze - and unless I am reading them wrong the stats for our clinic suggest that more people dont have anything to freeze than do...and of course suggest that most rounds fail, sadly

There is a lot to consider on the DE path, and I dont think you can go into it feeling shame, or anger, because its so important to be open with your future child about their conception and not pass on feelings like that. We have counseling to go through as a next step. I personally wouldn't consider surrogacy so, for us, it is likely to be a childfree life if we do not go forward with donor eggs. We've looked at adoption too but for various reasons have closed that door.

I do know someone who has a little girl conceived using a donor egg, and she is an absolutely wonderful mother who could not be more in love with her child, they have already told her about her story (in an age appropriate way - using story books etc) and will continue to talk about it as she grows.

As you are in the fact finding stage I recommend taking a look at https://www.dcnetwork.org/

There is also a book and podcast called "Three Makes Baby" and lots of useful threads both on here and Reddit.

Best of luck in your next round!

Please bear in mind of course your clinic will say stay positive and offer you all sorts of alternatives. They are a profit making business and it's in their interest you keep going.

In fairness I will say that when I told my clinic I thought it might be time to make the switch to donor eggs they were like 'yep, given your history that would definitely increase your chances if that's what you'd like to do' so (whilst I acknowledge that yes, there is a financial aspect) I don't think they're necessarily infinitely dangling false hope.

I've always been on the more decisive side in terms of treatment choices but even from that perspective, it's relatively rare for people to be contemplating donor eggs this 'early' in their treatment journey (absent a definitive diagnosis meaning this would be their only option). I know it's been a long and hard road already, OP, and I'm not dissing that, but do bear in mind that many clinics will look on the first round of IVF as being at least partly diagnostic, and will look to adjust the next cycle based on what they learned from it. If they're saying they think they still have options, it's worth having a consultation and going through what exactly they're proposing changing for a second cycle, and why. You can always go away and research their proposed changes more fully before making a final decision, but it's worth getting them to break down exactly what they have in mind. And sometimes people do just randomly have one particularly good or bad cycle.

I think the PP's point around considering where your red lines are is a valid one and I don't disagree, but I'd also say that it's not unusual or unreasonable to change your mind about some things while experiencing infertility. Whether or not to have IVF in the first place, for example - I absolutely remember a time when that felt like it would be a step too far, until I changed my view.

Process-wise, what's involved depends a bit on whether you'd be using fresh or frozen donor eggs - with the former, more effort goes into synching your cycle with the donor's, with the latter it's very similar to an FET. Either way it's a less physically intense process than a fresh cycle with your own eggs.

Best of luck, OP, whatever you decide?

I was donor conceived and every day of my life is a struggle. You can find a match based on looks but so many of us felt we never fit in with our families. Intentionally severing the connection between a child and their biological parent, and aunts/uncles/grandparents/cousins is a seriously traumatic thing to deal with every single day. My child will have to dna test potential partners to ensure they are not related. The whole industry is unethical and I say this as someone who has struggled with infertility for years. I am well aware that I was the ‘last resort’ the consolation prize, the result of a science & eugenics experiment. Please do not take this decision lightly.

@Endomummy has expressed some of my concerns. I feel very little thought is given to the child born from donation. There are some studies about the impact on children and how the relationship differs between parent and child when donation is involved.

I also have ethical concerns. Women offered 'free' IVF if they give up half their eggs collected to be bought by richer people. Women have embryos in the freezer who can't afford the thousands of pounds to transfer them but told it'll be 'free' if they go through another (not without risk) round of IVF and give up all their eggs. I think it's disgusting.

There was a post by a woman on here some time ago who gave half her eggs away and the further her own pregnancy continued the more she regretted it. People had told her how lovely it was for her to do but she hasn't properly considered the implications of a sibling of her child being out there in the world neither of them would know.

I file this under just because you can doesn't mean you should.

I would never ever do surrogacy as I think it's immortal and unethical for all of the reasons you'll be able to find on Mumsnet under every thread about surrogacy.

Good luck op x

@Coppercup i agree with everything you said. It’s highly unethical and there is total disregard for the children’s rights and feelings that are created in this manner. People who are donor conceived are given this message that biology doesn’t matter, which is totally invalidating and false. If biology doesn’t matter than why not adopt? It’s just a way of minimising our voices and invalidating our thoughts and feelings. Biology matters enough for someone try use a donor so it is ‘half related’ yet we are supposed to accept that biological connection being severed. Whilst my parents were very loving, I have lasting trauma from this, and many of my traits must be from my biological parent and I am different to my family. I was raised with a sibling that they used a different donor for, another extremely poor decision.

Hello Op,

I have given considerable thought to this topic after multiple losses and failed rounds of IVF.

Resources that have been helpful to me:

• Donor Conception Network;
• Paths to Parenthub (including the PtP podcast);
• I follow donorchild, definingmum and dcp_journey on Instagram;
• the book 'building your family'

and I have had some implications counselling.

Where I got to with all of this is being clear that, if we used an egg donor, I would want an altruistic donor rather than a donor who has donated eggs as part of an egg sharing program, and my child would have access to their contact details at 18. I would tell the child their story from the beginning and would support and help them if they wanted to find their biological relatives in the future.

It's taken me a long time to process all of this (probably 2 years) and get to this point. I've spent alot of time worrying about how my child would feel and sort of got to the viewpoint that it's as much about how you build and invest in that relationship.

I'm still not certain it's a path we will go down but this is where I have got to with my thinking so far.

It doesn’t matter how much you ‘build and invest’ in that child. You cannot replace a severed biological connection. Intentionally creating people that you are cutting off from their biological family. But people will seek out resources and viewpoints to justify what they want to do. It makes me so sad to see how many people are being created like this, and for profit.

There was also a poster on here who was an altruistic donor. Started very positively but shifted to her actually feeling quite poorly treated, not really encouraged to think about long term implications etc. will see if I can find it.

so many of us felt we never fit in with our families @Endomummy
Do you speak with other people who were donor conceived? Is there somewhere to go to do this?

@Comff I do yes but most groups are only for people that are DC.

I would recommend this website
https://www.wearedonorconceived.com/

also medical studies that show the impact of this.

I would encourage anyone considering this to only listen to the voices of DC people as frankly we are the only people who know what it is like to live like this. I know what it feels like to be desperate for a child, but healing your trauma by causing trauma to an innocent child is not fair.

I have spent a lot of time listening to the views of donor conceived people and I have found it difficult to draw concrete conclusions (either way).

For example, the link below to a donor conceived website has a survey which I had previously seen. The survey generally showed that those who were told of their donor conception story early, and where they had a good relationship with their biological parent and mum/dad saw the best outcomes. It looked like the survey results had a large proportion of respondents from the USA (where I think anonymous donors are more common?) and a higher proportion who found out later in life which will influence the results.

I've heard views from DCP who have faced challenges with being donor conceived, and also views from DCP who have not - generally linked to the way that they were told and the relationship they've had with biological relatives. Two of my Instagram suggestions below are accounts for DCP, and I've also attended several online events with DCP speakers on the paths to parenthub website. I have also been in direct communication with some DCP via this site and they have kindly shared their thoughts with me.

I also found medical studies challenging to draw good conclusions from. There are studies I've read where the outcomes seem neutral or positive but some of these were funded by fertility organisations so will clearly be biased. Also, I understand the advice around telling children about their conception story was different in the 80s/90s where parents were told not to tell their children and so it's also difficult to hear enough views from DCP who are adults who have always known their story.

You also see examples of people who are not DC and they do or do not get on with their parents and carry trauma for other reasons.

To be clear, I am absolutely not disagreeing with anything of the views here from DCP. But I think my above shows that I have taken quite a lot of actions to hear lots of perspectives of DCP and I wanted to explain why it is difficult to really have a concrete view of the position.

For me, having a child via donor conception is not about healing a trauma but exploring whether I could give a child a good upbringing and life taking into account the responsibilities that come with raising a DC child. I still haven't found the answer to that question, hence why I said I am undecided on this path.

@twoforwardandtwoback it reads like you are trying to justify DC. Obviously people should be told they are DC and that is why the law is changed as it is a fundamental right to know one’s origins. However, honesty from the beginning doesn’t erase being separated from biological family. If biology isn’t important why don’t you adopt? Or do you feel it’s important for you but not your child? Children grow up, we are human beings, not products that you can buy.

as I’m sure my view will be dismissed as just being an angry DCP, I will reiterate that my parents are brilliant and have given me an amazing life. That doesn’t mean I don’t deeply long to know all my biological relatives, something which has been actively denied to me by the people who are meant to love me most in the world.

A mother should put their child first and protect them from harm, not cause it. You have no idea how it feels to know your parents were selfish enough to put their own desires in front of you, to not know your family, to be disconnected (I guarantee there will be traits from the donor that the DCP will relate to that you will not), to have one existence on this planet and have to live every day disturbed by your conception and lack of connection with relatives.

The "why don't you adopt" question comes up often when people are struggling to conceive.

My answer to that is that my understanding is the average age of an adopted child in the U.K. is 3-4 because every effort is made to keep the child with their birth family in the first instance which makes sense. But that can mean that adopted children have been through alot of trauma before being adopted and may have additional needs that parents need to be prepared to support. For us, we do not feel able to support this and we do not have the wider support network to support us with this.

Adoption is a completely different path to parenthood, in much the same way as using a donor is a different path to parenthood - both of which come with different responsibilities in order to support the child. I'm not sure yet whether donor conception is a path we do feel able to support adequately which is why I have spent 2 years researching this topic and turning over the pros and cons (from all perspectives) in my mind.

I do not think that biology isn't important - I don't think I have said that. I do think it is important and that's why I have said I would understand and support my child if they wanted to explore their biological background and have a relationship with their biological relatives.

I'm sorry that you haven't been able to do the same.

OK @Endomummy, but there are many, many non-donor conceived people who don't know their biological relatives (or who believe that they do but later find out they were misinformed). If your position is that it's unacceptable for anyone to be brought up in situations where they don't have contact with biological family then do you also believe that if a person has cut ties with awful abusive family members, they should never have children themselves since those children will be denied that aspect of their heritage? If a woman finds herself pregnant following a one night stand with someone she can't contact, should she automatically abort for that reason? You may indeed hold those views, and that would be your right, but I think that perspective would generally be considered quite singular in focus, in the face of the complexities of real life.

I don't want to dismiss your feelings - they are yours and nobody can be wrong about how they feel. But gently, you yourself seem very willing to discount the opinions of donor-conceived people who don't happen to feel exactly the same way you do - and such people do exist. Nor is the research evidence into the topic by any means as bleak as you are suggesting. So as much as you feel that people considering donor conception may be viewing things through rose-tinted glasses, you also have your own unique and entirely valid set of perspectives colouring how you're seeing things.

For myself, ultimately, I decided that seeking to have a child - in whatever circumstance - was about embracing hope. Not blindly, by any means, not abandoning ethical considerations, and certainly not in the belief that nothing could ever be difficult for the resulting child. But ultimately, believing that things also had the chance of going right, and that it was one worth taking.

@Persipan that is a ridiculous comparison and completely dismissive. There are all kinds of reasons that people may not have contact with biological relatives but with DC you are ACTIVELY CHOOSING to sever biological parental connections, not just parents, but grandparents, aunts and uncles. It is an active and intentional choice to do that to your child. And not just that, but deny them health information. I have no idea what may run in my family, that puts me and my child at risk.

at no point have I said there are others who feel differently. Of course there will be a spectrum of feelings from DCP on this. However I can tell you from my experience, and my half siblings experience, and all the posts I see daily in DC groups, every single person has some level of psychological issue due to this.

’colouring my view’. I am a DCP. You are not. You have no idea how this feels. So you are actually dismissing my opinion because I am DCP, that is ridiculous and incredibly invalidating.

You are the typical RP who is obviously wanting to justify the decision they have taken, and dismissing what you are being told by someone who has been created in this manner. If you have gone down this route then yes, you’ve abandoned ethical considerations, and decided your feelings and desires are more important than your child’s human rights, identity, thoughts, feelings, self worth.

@twoforwardandtwoback so you don’t want to adopt a child because they may have trauma, yet you think it’s acceptable to inflict trauma by creating someone cut off from their biological parent(s).

when you use a donor there is no guarantee that they or anyone else will be willing to have a relationship with the child. Sadly there are huge risks in this.

as I said I have, and am, struggling with infertility. But I will keep that pain to myself, there is no way I would ever use a donor and pass the pain to my child.