AIBU Two mums wanting another baby

[efsmum]

Sorry for the long explanation.

Me and my partner already have a beautiful girl. That my partner carried with her egg and our chosen sperm donor via IVF.

After that cycle of IVF and we got pregnant we didn't have any straws of donor sperm left. Being caught up in the new emotions and rollercoaster of events following a new born we didn't buy any further sperm nor did we think to check. My partner struggled with her mental health and has only just now started coming round to the idea of having baby number 2. With one problem, the donor sperm we used is no longer active and we do not have any donor sperm left. We do however have frozen embryos with our clinic, with my partners eggs. My partner is strong minded that she wants the children to be biologically connected by the donor but this seems to no longer be an option. I would carry next but I really would like to carry my own egg.

We are knocking heads and can't agree as my partner wants me to carry her embryo and I would like to look for a new sperm donor and carry my own. AIBU?

She keeps mentioning about how important it is for them to be biologically connected but I don't feel the same maybe that is because my daughter is not biologically connected to me and I don't see her any less as my daughter. I can't explain why I feel it is important for me to carry my own, but it is something I would prefer to do. I would carry her embryos but would want to do this after I carried my own.

Neither of you are unreasonable. It's a really personal thing and everyone's going to have a different perspective.

Personally I think the potential child's best interests should be the deciding factor.

If I was your child I would prefer to have a full blooded sibling. Especially if I was not going to know my biological father.

Are you part of the Donor Conception Network already? I've found their chats very helpful in figuring some things out.

My thoughts on this are from the perspective if the children and their sense of belonging - something our clinic counsellor was very keen on making clear is important to donor conceived people. Have you had counselling from your clinic? Presuming you were successful in conceiving with your own egg and new donor sperm, the siblings wouldn't be biologically related. That might cause issues in itself, let alone with there being a kind of "your child/DWs child". Personally, think if you can't share the sperm donor then it would be preferable to use the same eggs.

I feel a tiny part uneasy by your comment about being "next" to carry as if it's about fairness and turn taking, but I acknowledge that in my situation DW has never wanted to be pregnant so it's not something I have personally experienced. And choosing to have a child is always, in part, a selfish act, after all! And I know many couples do so this turn taking thing though generally I think with a consistent sperm donor.

What I will say is that when you do decide to go ahead, there's a thread running for same sex couples in Infertility - come and join us and let us know how you get on. Even from just in the planning stage tbh!

(we're over here https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/infertility/4905336-iui-fertility-in-ssc?page=1)

I'm afraid I'm with your wife on this. We have DC children, and wanted them to be able to share as much as possible. The worst outcome in our thoughts would be both wanting to trace donors, and one not being able to, so we used the same donor for both and our children are full siblings. If we had not be able to we would have stuck with one child.

I carried both but am not biologically connected to them, and I don't think about it, they are just both my children.

I can see both sides, frankly. The desire to be a mom and carry your own child is strong. Lots of loving families aren't fully related. Step, adoption, etc. I don't agree that the siblings won't have a connection if they aren't related.

You may very well resent your wife if you are kept from trying to carry your own pregnancy. Also, it's risky to carry an embryo from another woman's egg, so I don't recommend you carrying your wife's child. It's not safe for you or the baby.

I can see it from both sides however I'm leaning more towards your side.

My wife and I are also same sex. We are ttc baby 1 with me being the carrier. I've had a miscarriage but back to ttc again still using me. Our plan, all being well, is that I will have the first child and she will have the second child. We are using a known donor (close friend) so hopefully he doesn't back out at any point but there's always the chance.

For me, I also had a strong feeling that I wanted our kids to be biologically connected to each other via the sperm donor. It's important to me. However it is not as important as my wife's desire to carry a child. If our donor dropped out after the first kid I would have no hesitation finding a new donor for my wife as I really don't think it would be fair for me to tell her she can't carry and I would carry again.

Likewise, if it turned out that one of us was infertile and it just wasn't going to happen, the other would carry both pregnancies but that would come with a lot of emotion and I hope we don't end up there. I would struggle if my wife wouldn't carry because I know she wants a baby the same way I do. Plus I would really love to see what her offspring look like, I think it would be so cute.

You are perfectly reasonable to want to carry a child that is biologically yours. Your children would be siblings no matter their biology.

I can see both sides but I would prioritise what is best for the (potential) siblings - i.e, being full siblings. And obviously going in knowing that it's not guaranteed.

It’s possible that other patients at the clinic will be storing samples from this donor that they won’t end up using. I ended up “selling” two samples back to the clinic (at a loss, of course - the clinic’s terms and conditions are set so that they wring money out of you at every stage).

I don’t know if the clinic would contact other patients on your behalf to see if they’re willing to sell, but there’s no harm in asking.

Also, if the donor is no longer showing as active on the website, this could just mean that he has reached his UK quota of ten families. But that doesn’t necessarily mean there are no samples left in stock for families who already have a child using this donor.

I’m afraid I agree with your wife. I understand how you feel but if it’s possible for siblings to be fully genetically related, I think this is important in terms of their identity. You may wish to read about ‘genealogical bewilderment’ which can affect children born in this way - perhaps it wouldn’t be an issue but the children will already dealing with their father being an anonymous donor (no judgement at all but we can’t pretend this isn’t relevant for them), this would create another layer to comprehend. Having both you and your wife’s love and support is likely to ameliorate a lot of the effects but a child’s sense of ‘belonging’ is psychologically important and shouldn’t be taken lightly, imo.

I think the potential child's interests trump the adults', and I think it's in the potential child's best interests to be biologically related to their sibling.

I disagree with most of the posters here. You can’t say that genetics are relevant from the child’s perspective and not acknowledge the very valid emotional feelings of wanting to have your own genetic child. Your offspring will be genetically tethered to you and socially / culturally tethered to their other mother and sibling. They don’t lose anything by virtue of the fact that their sibling has a different biological mother. They have a shared experience by growing up together, by having the same two mums and by both being DC. I think we also have to think about how families can feel balanced (in same sex couples raising children). To be the non-bio mum isn’t always easy and you may always regret being placed in that role if you don’t get given the opportunity to carry your own egg. This could lead to resentment and an imbalance in your family over time (I’m not saying it always does, just that it could).

I think it is completely understandable that you want to carry a child that is biologically yours as the option is there.

Yes, this.

Different situation as I never wanted to experience pregnancy or cared about a genetic connection to my kids, but ours are full siblings and they feel that’s ‘important to them (they’re older teens now so able to articulate that). They like the fact they can work out stuff about the donor from both of them (our donor was anonymous so no option to trace), that they look alike and have so many similarities.

agree with others saying you need to do what’s best for the kids and IMO when they won’t have any relationship with their dad then it’s a better option for them to be genetically related to each other.

Also, it's risky to carry an embryo from another woman's egg, so I don't recommend you carrying your wife's child. It's not safe for you or the baby.

How is it risky @Delphinium20

@efsmum I don’t know the answer for you but think you need to seek counselling to clarify your thoughts and at the same time see if there’s any option to buy back sperm.
I don’t like the sound of how your wife is pressuring you. (I’m not genetically related to my child but not in a same sex couple).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6765033/

"Ovum donation has now been shown to be an independent risk factor for hypertensive disease in pregnancy, post-partum haemorrhage and increased risk of caesarean section." Due to likely immunology differences between mother and ova.

If you accept that genetic links are important, then it comes down to:

You - having a genetic link to one child and that child to one parent

Vs

Your child having a genetic link to one parent
PLUS
Your existing child having any genetic link to their sibling
Your potential child having any genetic link to their sibling

Down the road it would be the opportunity for the children to share genetic links with nieces and nephews as well.

I think the best interests of the children should come first, and on balance there are far more advantages for the children if they are related by genetics.

If you think genetics are important then I think you need to put your child before yourself and not deprive them of the opportunity to share a wider sense of who they are.

Did you use a UK donor and if so, have you asked the clinic if they can contact the donor to see if he will donate for a second child
if you used a US donor you can go on the donor sibling registry and see if any other parents have left over sperm they are willing to sell you
i think it is perfectly reasonable to want your own biological child (I would feel the same way)
for all you know your potential child might be weirded out by the idea of you carrying your partners egg. You have no way of knowing how they will feel.

us clinics will also often contact their donors about donating for sibling sperm

Also -
What benefit is it to the potential child if you carry the embryo made from the egg of your partner and donor sperm
it's only to your benefit (if you want to experience pregnancy). it doesn't confer any physical or identity benefit on the child
if anything the child might be annoyed you carried her and not her actual biological mother
its not even to your real benefit because you want to experience not just pregnancy but being pregnant and related to a child that is biologically yours.
i think the best option is
your egg /different sperm /you carry
her egg /same sperm /she carries
i think giving up being the biological mother to a child if they'd what you want and if that's an option to you is a huge thjng.

I respect the varied opinions on here but from a personal point of view and being in the same situation I think you should be able to carry with your egg/different sperm, it’s a big shout to deny that for someone. That being said I am wondering if this was always the plan and your wife has changed her mind or whether you hadn’t discussed having more than 1?

I have adopted family on both my mums and dads side as well as a sister who has a different dad and I think that biologically we have always understood that it isn’t everything and there is much much more to family than genes.

We have a 2 year old that my wife carried with her egg and I am currently pregnant with our second child (my egg/different donor). Please feel free to DM me if you want to chat!

I've been through several rounds of IVF and I'm with your wife on this one, because I feel that the frozen embryos already in existence deserve a chance to flourish ahead of as yet uncreated embryos. From the children's perspective they would be full siblings which may be important to them. I understand where you are coming from though and in case it helps, I found this article about how the mother carrying an embryo from a donor egg can still influence the baby's growth via epigenetic factors:

"It is true that when using a donor egg, the baby will inherit DNA from the egg donor and the sperm and not the recipient mother, but heritability is more complicated than that. For DNA to function it has to receive instructions, just like computer hardware has to receive instructions from the software program. In nature, the software is called epigenetics and is very much present inside the uterus as the baby grows. Studies have shown that birth mothers, including women carrying a donor egg baby, can influence such important factors as metabolism and brain development through epigenetic modulation while their baby is developing in the uterus."

pinnacleeggbank.com/egg-donation-blog/donor-eggs-epigenetics-will-the-baby-look-like-me/#:~:text=Studies%20have%20shown%20that%20birth,is%20developing%20in%20the%20uterus.

You’re absolutely entitled to have your opinion and feelings. However my gut reaction does go with your partner. You have beautiful ready made embryos. It would be a full sibling to your current child. Wouldn’t that be wonderful and also best for both children? Also would you feel differently about your child due to the genetic connection? Would you favour yours?
If not, why this urgency to have your egg? I’d definitely talk this through with the counselling service connected to your clinic. Good luck.

Of you carry and give birth to a child it won't feel any different whose egg
you used op.

I'd go with letting the children be biologically related. Being a parent is about doing what's best for them.