How does a 50/50 divorce settlement work with older children to house?

[Lonelysummer]

H and I separated earlier this year. His decision, if that's relevant.

We are just talking about the legal formalities ie split of marital assets. My understanding is that there's a broad 50/50 principle for fairness, then a consideration as to whether that meets both parties needs.

Obvs housing is the key one. I am currently living in our home with dd19 and ds17. Dh is lodging locally. If we split the housing equity in half, that will give DH enough money to buy outright or very nearly a very nice flat in our area (London) and me not enough to be able to house 3 of us anywhere in London. Even taking on as big a mortgage as I can get, buying a 3 bedroom would involve us moving away from where we are now. Ds is at school in London for another year, DD is going to university and will be back for holidays etc and probably when she graduates.

Dh decided to take his pension when he turned 60 earlier this year. I am working full time and intend to go so for as long as I can and still have a job. My job is in London and I don't fancy my chances trying to get another at my age.

Both offspring want to live with me at the moment. Ds may change his mind as he gets older, but who knows?

I am struggling to see how this is fair. Dh improves his already very chilled lifestyle, while I have to uproot the children and myself and possibly not keep my job.

I don't have any family. I am on my own and would really appreciate not losing everything I have built up here.

Can anyone explain how 50/50 works when there are adult/nearly adult children to be housed?

TIA

My friend is going through this at the moment. Legally her children are 'too old' to have their housing needs taken into account (they are uni age) but morally I think their father is incredibly selfish not to feel equally responsible for housing them. They are still negotiating (a year post starting divorce proceedings)

I've been working full-time since my youngest was 10. Well, I tried to, but it took me a long time to get a full-time job. I now have no intention of doing anything less than full-time until I retire to build up what pension I can.

I agree. My h would have no intention of providing a home while I went off and lived some single live. Tbf, that's not what want I want to do anyway.

If there weren't young adults involved, the house would be on the market and I'd be very happy with a 50% share of equity and pensions split in half. But they are involved and their needs are primary whatever the law says.

No, it's not fair. And it's not supposed to be fair. The law is not a moral judgement, it's just a series of enforceable rules that cover every scenario.

I'm in exactly the same situation. I'm going to push hard for more than 50% but I won't necessarily get it. It's unfair. It sucks. Our 2 children over 18 are still in full time education. They live with me. Their dad won't even tell them his address.

He will buy a nice little flat with his massive salary and his new woman. I will be on the bones of my arse, trying to survive and keep the kids okay.

I was in a very similar situation. Three DC 19-22 and in outer London. They are not considered in financial terms but what does he realistically want to do about it? Can you call his bluff and say he must house one of them as you can’t afford to house three of you?
Mine are still at home with me four years later. Because London!
My ex was happy to do whatever worked so that I could house them and he could go off and get a lovely house two hours away with new girlfriend. He had better pension and had his lump sum and an inheritance. I ended up taking far more of the equity in our house with his agreement. Not enough to buy him out of the family home but just enough with a smallish mortgage to move 20 minutes away.
I argued that I’d lost pension by being part time for years. And that someone needed to house the children for a few years.

So. Can you use his concern for his children and his desire to live a bachelor life to get him to agree to give you enough?
We have never gone to court. All done informally and we’re still married.
It does suck that the law doesn’t recognise the reality of modern families with young adults. Is there any hope he will be reasonable?

It’s just baffling to me that fathers (and it seems to happen frequently on mn at least) are prepared to shit on their children so. One thing I will say for my ex, is that he will always provide financially for his children, regardless of whether the law makes him. It hadn’t occurred to me, or him, that he wouldn’t really.

In all honesty, most university students rent a shared house or flat for their second and third year and these are usually whole year rentals.

i appreciate that you want to provide a home for your children but it is worth bearing in mind they may not want to come back after they graduate. Obviously it’s tricky to get graduate jobs at the moment and many graduates are living at home, but it’s not necessarily a done deal.

if your youngest has only another year at school as well then finding a cheaper area may be an option.

Regarding his reasonableness, it totally depends what mood's he's in. Can be very grounded about how important it is for the children to have a secure base, also full of how he was 'forced' out of the house. He wasn't. He was refusing to leave while treating me shittily and it escalated to a serious situation where I said that I'd call the police if he didn't go.

He's also very much enjoying the occasional, part-time parenting, knowing that his children will continue to be cared for (as much as teens need) and provided for on a day to day basis.

He is trying to con you basically. Everything goes into the pot THEN the percentage split is agreed then you see what that looks like. If he has a large pension like fuck will he get to keep all of it and get half the equity in the house unless there are some other large items on the other side of the balance sheet in your favour. You need legal advice, it is very common for men to to try and bulldoze their way to a bigger share than they are entitled to.

My understanding is that the court would seek to equalise retirement income and housing if possible. he’s only 60 and could go back to work until normal retirement age of 67 and maximise his income. He won’t get to keep all his pension and half the equity while you have massive borrowing. Judges are being told to be much more aware of pensions and making sure women in particular aren’t shortchanged. Did he withdraw a lump sum from his pension if so you need to argue for that to be added back in to the assets. You just need to get this in front of a court asap. Some judges are more sympathetic to young adults especially if there are enough assets to meet need.

You may be able to find a 2 bed with 2 reception rooms where one could be a bedroom. A lot of old terraces are like this. You may have to be creative but also don’t assume you will only get 50% if your earning and mortgage ability was / is less than his. Just because he’s not working now doesn’t mean he’s not capable of going back to work.

Do you think his retirement is genuine or temporary? Different scenario but exH did a lot of stuff to minimise his income and it didn’t do him any favours the judge just assessed what they thought he was capable of earning.

You really need legal advice here. I’m not sure if the fact he’s already started accessing his pension impacts how it’s accounted for as an asset split. He will presumably argue that you have more time to build your own up whereas he has no further earning potential.

It looks very possible he’s planned the timing of all this very well - you need to not take anything he says as true, and see a good lawyer asap. Protect your own assets in the meantime

He has further earning potential @MJagain, as he’s only 60. He has 7 more years.

Hi OP, I recently had divorce finalised and in a similar position to you. DC 18 and 16. I am staying in the family home until the youngest is 18 as this is close to their college. So my agreement is essentially based on two 18+ DC by the time the house is sold.

Our pensions were equalised (he gave me a percentage of his) and I get 60% equity because the DC do not ever stay with him. I don't know if they will go to uni so I will be trying to get a 3 bed in London for 60% of the budget I had as a couple. Won't be easy but something will come up.

My process was everything declared financially - I did this through a solicitor, he refused to have legal advice. Pensions absolutely part of the pot. Then you can offset the pension for equity if that is what you want. But I was warned by a few women who had been through it not to leave myself in a perilous state at retirement because 'keeping the house' clouded my thinking.

So more equity is possible, but you will only be able to negotiate this when you know how much his pension is worth. You will likely have to pay for all of this. And previous posters are right, he isn't your friend, this is business-like, it doesn't matter what he says he wants.

He's had nearly 6 months 'off' and has just started looking for a job. His pension is decent inasmuch as he takes home over 2/3 of what I do working full-time. He wants to work part-time or contract.

Which tbh, is up to him as he made perfectly clear when I suggested that tanking his income when we had two kids to get through university wasn't ideal.

Thanks for posting and for sharing your experiences.

Yes, I've been warned about the risks of foregoing pension sharing entitlement. I do get it but my immediate need to house myself and the children and the future options that will give me eg if dc come home and are working they can contribute or I could get a lodger is key.

I wouldn't take on a large mortgage to buy him out, I think it's too much of a financial burden for you. Speak to a solicitor and see what they advise.

In your shoes, I'd be prepared to get a nice flat/small house and if someone has to sleep in the living room, so be it. Longterm, it's better to have a place that you can easily afford than be overstretched.

I would try and propose to him that you sit down with the children to discuss future options. Make him accountable for his selfish actions! Let him tell them that he is not prepared to help them any more and that his is prepared to let you do it all on your own.

This is a joint problem (ie how to support your semi grown up children) and he is making it all your problem to resolve while he skips off into the sunset!

F

Not really - if they live with one parent and both work thats 25k a year even at min wage, each. So 50k a year plus the parents income which lets say is 35k a year - 3 adults, household income of 85k a year.

When we engaged a PODE, their main output was to divide the pensions so that we both received similar pensions when we retired at our respective time from the existing pots ... and suggested pension sharing order percentages to achieve this. This then balanced out the fact that one partner gave up work to bring up children.
From your perspective, they may well adjust figures as he is retired and you still have a number of years for the shared pension pot to grow (I think ours used a 7% increase per year as an average investment growth)
They did not calculate additional pension you may get from your pension contributions from now until retirement... it was solely based on the values of the pension pots at the point the CETV's are obtained.

On the housing front, you have far more flexibility to agree the splits of assets, if you can agree between yourselves ... so you may be able to have more house funds and relinquish some pension. Involve 'aggressive solicitors' and courts, it will likely be the equal split of assets will be down the middle ... so 50% split of the house, 50% split of the pension. Agreement between yourselves still needs to be fair to both sides, but it gives a bit of flexibility
Even if you just split 50/50 down the middle, at age 57, you can take up to 25% of your pension fund tax free ... which may help towards your housing needs now ... but you will be advised to discuss with a finance advisor before going down this road

The point is the age. Over 90% of 18 year olds (I just googled it) do not work full time. 60% are still in full time education. So, most still need parental financial support.

Thanks all. We do need to engage a PODE to give us more accurate figures to work with.

I do not want 50% of the joint value of our pensions, or even close as that would mean him having 50% of the house equity so me still having to take on a large mortgage to house 3 of us god knows where. I do need proper advice about whether I could negotiate to keep eg.75% of the house equity and receive maybe 10% of his pension. That would give him a hefty deposit towards a flat in London (about 80%). He could get a small mortgage on his DB pension and he has the option to get a job like most 60 year olds do.

I could then liquidate some of my pension, use some savings and get a mortgage to give him this amount. I may want to downsize when the children are more settled into adult life and us separating is further away in their memories. Ot they may come back to live here after uni, work and contribute and I can get a lodger.

If it comes to it, I would look into getting a 2 bedroom place and sleep in the living room rather than move my children away from where they have grown up, their friends, school for the moment and holiday job for DD are though.

The assumption that pensions are equalised relies on the parties being similar ages or there about. If there is a significant age gap with one party being close to retirement or potentially needing to retire early on health grounds equalisation is not a given.

For example if one party is in their 40s and the other is in the 60s, the younger party can accrue more pension. The older party either can’t or has limited ability to do so. Giving them an argument to vary away from equalisation.

I would try to get agreement to stay in the family home until the youngest has completed their exams. Then you can buy him out or sell up. But he will be older and he may have reduced capacity to work.

Please try and ignore what he is saying that ‘he wants’. He might want half the house and all his pension but he won’t get that as it’s very unfair.

I got so worried about things that my ex was saying eg ‘you’re not getting your hands on my pension’ when I had worked part time after we had our child and I worried and worried. Once we had figures and proper legal advice he never mentioned it again as his solicitor had told him how this usually worked (and that in our situation our pensions would be equalised). I learnt then not to listen to his wants, as most of what he wanted would never be agreed or seen as fair anyway. It was hard though when he seemed so sure about what he wanted / what he thought he would get.
Why would he expect to get half the house and all his pension? He is not being realistic.

Shit Hot Lawyer. Don't go along with what he says. As pp have pointed out he's not your friend now. I knew someone who recited to a solicitor what her soon to be ex had said he wanted, to be met with 'well, he's not going to get everything his way, you know'.