Can my niece willingly walk away with nothing?

[happyless]

My niece is a free spirit and doesn't always think of the potential future impact. She has decided she wants a divorce (she has her reasons) and her husband has agreed on the following conditions:

50/50 custody of their 5 year old.
She signs the house over and he stays in it (90k equity).

She's going to need UC to pay her rent on a flat as she only works 20 hours p/w in retail and no savings.

She is going to apply for the divorce herself with no solicitor involvement.

Will this be allowed to happen? I'm really worried for her.

Thank you. She's 33.

I say 'free sprit' as I don't want to be unkind - what I really mean is reckless.

She says she wants nothing to do with the house sale or the proceeds. Possibly because he pays the mortgage and she pays the energy bill and the weekly shop.

I assumed that if you were married with a child, then this arrangement was okay as one does more childcare/housekeeping than the other as this is 'work' too, even though you don't earn a wage for it.

I feel like she thinks she doesn't deserve it, as he has always made it clear that he's the earner and he pays the bills. I'm not sure about coercion here, but he really does like to hammer it home that he's the reason they have the house. He does treat her like a financial burden.

He is going to see a solicitor, but she says she doesn't need to as she doesn't want anything and is agreeable to 50/50. When we try and explain the implications/complications for her, she just says it's okay. My stomach is turning over.

She may not be entitled to universal credit she would likely be classed as depriving herself of capital by giving away her home.
50/50 also means the ex won't need to pay her any maintenance.
If she doesn't work and even if she did get uc its a miserable existence - the standard and child elements come to less than £700 she may also get some rent paid but the £700 would be expected to cover all bills/food/transport and any rent shortfall which there often is if renting privately.

Thank you, that's really helpful. I'm glad yours went smoothly. Do you have to have the financial order and child arrangement order for the divorce to go ahead? Will they both have to provide proof of their financial situation, or is it self declared? He has investments that he says belong to him only and we think he wouldn't declare them anyway.

She just keeps saying it's because she doesn't want anything and everything will be okay. She isn't worried at all.

This makes me feel that the prospect of 'escaping' is worth more to her than having to stay under the same roof.

All I can say is that I know he can be belittling, but we haven't seen evidence of abuse. He uses the language of a financial abuser (my house, I pay for everything, keeps tabs on her spending etc), but it's low level (even so, I wouldn't put up with it, it's wrong).

Nothing physical and he must be okay with their son because she's prepared to accept 50/50. I don't believe she'd agree to that if she thought he wasn't going to be safe (in every sense).

She won't do it - we've offered. She just says it will all work out and seems unconcerned. It's very worrying.

That could well be because she’s paralysed by stress and wants to avoid asking for anything from her DH or having to enter discussions with him or go over things with a solicitor. Of course just walking away is the easiest, least stressful option 🤷‍♀️

However, she will NOT be allowed to do this and you need to point this out to her very, very clearly. She will NOT be entitled to UC if she’s deprived herself of her assets or purposely lodged them with her DH to hide them (and I do think this is a possibility - that she knows she won’t get benefits with them)

They can do this if this is what she wants. They did it for my friend.
But something she should know, she won't be entitled to child maintenance if 50/50 and UC will be impacted greatly on the child aspect side of it since she only has the child 50%.
If she does sell the house and divides she's nit entitled to UC if she has £16,000 or more enter her account and during this sort of thing money would be only placed in her bank account because they di this ro prevent fraud and UC checks accounts.
Personally I think she's setting herself up here alittle bit to fail.

One of the reasons a judge has to sign of a financial order is to prevent people being screwed by financially abusive spouses which clearly he is. He would have to provide evidence of his investments if she alerts the court to their existence which she may not. But they can't avoid the issue of the house.

@happyless She could sign getting any equity if she had means to provide for herself. You can't no thanks to equity and assume the tax payer should pay for you. Surely she must understand this?

All right, well if she won’t, she won’t. You have to hope that the judge is competent enough to spot that she hasn’t had advice and to tell her they can’t get a divorce without it. Probably they’ll end up having to go to court with a huge increase in expense all round. What a waste of time and money. ‘It will all work out’ indeed.

She shouldn't walk away with nothing as she's got a child she'll have to house 50% of the time. So she should get 50% of that equity to be able to do so. She'll need to up her working hours. He doesn't have to agree to the divorce, she can do it whether he agrees or not.

Her 'loss' in deal OP dislikes, would be £45k, is that right?
I dunno, how much would she pay out of the £45k in solicitor fees and in stress if she loses amicable relationship with the ex, what amount ££ would she actually get?

I am sure if the equity she lost was only £2k that everyone would agree she was making a sensible decision. So where between £2k & £45k is it worth risking destroying the amicable relationship?

Would he be more sensible (in long term) about passing that £45k to their child (would she would just fritter it away instead).?

She can definitely walk away, it does happen, whether a free spirit or not.
A bit of common sense into the spirit wouldn't go amiss, why "willingly with nothing"?
Like hell my husband would tell me to sign over what legally belongs to me.

You need to have the Conditional order for the divorce first then apply for the finances. If it is amicable then it is called a Consent Order and it is self declared in a D81 form. If it’s not amicable then you need a solicitor and form E and you can look at evidence or even get forensic accountants in where there’s hidden assets to uncover it all (for substantial assets).

You need the Consent Order sealed before the divorce is finalised (Final Order). So it’s divorce application, 20 week pause, Conditional Order, Consent Order (amicable) or Financial Order (court), Final Order.

Most people use the 20 week cooling off period though once you start the divorce application to get the finances agreed and written up by solicitor so it is ready to submit as soon as the Conditional Order made.

Ultimately it’s her decision. If she decides to ignore what you say she’ll find out the hard way. But amicable is best if possible as only solicitors benefit from court. Our consent order was just under £800 to be written up by online solicitor. They didn’t provide advice-just wrote what we asked for. But we were in full agreement from day 1 and our agreement was fair, just not 50/50.

I'm worried the amicability is only as a result of her complying.

That's not amicability.

45k is a lot of money to someone who can't afford to pay for their own flat. So is 2k.

Maybe she sees it the way you've put it - I really don't know. She wouldn't have the option to fritter it though - she'll need to live on it.

My understanding is that any agreements need to be considered fair and reasonable, her walking away without anything to me does not seem that so would anticipate the judge would not be prepared to sign off on this. I would seriously encourage her to seek legal advice at least a one off to know what she is entitled to and what will be considered in any order being agreed.

He sounds abusive. I assume she has been working part time to provide child care for their joint child and he was fine with this when they were married but now does not want to pay child support.

Why are pensions not being considered? I’d suggest getting some advice from womens aid

I divorced and for good reasons was giving my husband more that 50%. When the financial order went to the judge it was refused and I had to reapply with a letter stating very clearly why this was ok.

@happyless - many family solicitor websites have some succinct summaries of what the divorce process entails. Maybe print one for her - could she be persuaded to read it?

living on £45k until it runs out could be considered frittering it away. I understood OP to say she had other options for money to live on under her preferred plan. Is someone entitled to UC if they have £45k in savings, does anyone know?

Has she actually asked him for half the house value?

Buried in OP's comments is statement that he also has undeclared investments: she is probably entitled to half those, too. Seem like much more then £45k at stake.

Be careful bcz you being pushy could make her just feel hassled & want to confide in you less.

Well it’s obvious isn’t it - the lazy madam doesn’t want £45k equity as she’d lose universal credit and be expected to work full time

less free spirit and more sponger comes to mind

Of course she's not entitled to benefits if she has £45k! The ceiling is £6000 for universal credit I believe. She's not 'frittering' her money if she lives off it. Why should he keep it and the taxpayer subsidise her to the tune of £45k until she runs out and is able to claim benefits?

No she wouldn't be expected to work full time - she could live off the £45k until it runs out. I don't believe she's being lazy by planning this, I think her abusive ex has convinced her that it's better to leave the equity in the house 'for their child to inherit' while she can easily go on benefits, and neither of them are acquainted enough with reality to understand why this isn't possible, plus she's naively not realising that she won't be automatically entitled to any benefits for the child if it's 50/50 shared care. She either doesn't see how he's trying to screw her over or she doesn't think she can fight it.

I used to work for a divorce solicitor. The divorce and financial order are 2 separate things, although you need to be further into the divorce process to apply for a financial order. However, are they even going to draw up a financial order? If they are then as part of the court process they both need to fill out forms giving full financial disclosure. I would be extremely surprised if the judge would grant the financial order after looking at their separate finances.

im not surprised that you are concerned. If only she would go and get a first free appointment with a divorce solicitor.