Pension split in divorce

[Totallyaddictedtoshoes]

We are in the process of divorce and have agreed 50/50 on pensions. I understand pensions are ultimately split by way of a percentage but I’m unsure how that works from a technical perspective. We are using the D81 form (although this appears to be getting further away from amicable all the time, so that may change). STBXH has given me a figure based on separation date, but not divulged the total amount so I don’t know how to work out the correct percentage for the financial consent order. Is it fair for me to request this? He hasn’t shown me his CETV either, simply emailed me a number.

Also, if we are agreed on 50/50, should we be working from separation date or the current amount in the pension pots? It differs by thousands.

He is being very cagey and is refusing to discuss anything face to face or show any documentation to back up his numbers. I know this isn’t “required” for the D81, but to me it would seem to be the respectful thing to do. I have all my paperwork here and have done for months, but he outright refuses. The most recent communication I sent him was to suggest he takes legal advice on how to complete the D81 (as I know his numbers don’t stack up-this may well be ignorance rather than deception though), request proof of his figures and to offer, once again, that we complete form E for transparency but he has ignored me. There are things that have happened which have led me to be cautious of trusting him, but I also know he has taken no legal advice, or done any research. Quite frankly I’m getting a bit fed up of pointing out his mistakes.

Apologies for the long post, but if anyone has any insight regarding the pension queries, it would be much appreciated.

Can't you ask your solicitor these questions? They should be advising you. It will be the value of the pension pot at the date pension sharing order is carried out. If you're splitting everything 50:50 then you should get 50% of his pension at that date.

With mine when there was a pension split, it was quoted as a %. So that if the fund value changed between date of divorce and date of moving it, the proportions were the same. We did use the £ value to calculate how it fitted within the mix of other assets too.

Thank you both for your responses. I haven’t instructed a solicitor yet, I have spoken to 3, but time was of the essence and I didn’t get on to this. These past few months have seen significant changes in circumstances so I was intending to instruct one once I have all the D81 details to determine if his suggested straight 50/50 split is appropriate.

That’s a very good point regarding the percentage being a moveable monetary value, so knowing what both mine and his values were on the date of separation I can just work that percentage out. He won’t like that, he will want to give me the monetary value as it was back then.

You need a solicitor youve tried to play nice, if he continues to be an arse ask for costs

It has to be a percentage by the way

Get a lawyer to deal with it. That way it’s sorted by someone who knows what they are doing, and your or his lack of experience (because why would either of you know how best to complete all this financial stuff) doesn’t penalise you. That’s what I did anyway, no way was I getting into the nitty gritty when I am not an expert in something so important. Totally worth the money imo.

Definitely agree to getting a solicitor asap and a good one on family law if you can. 50:50 may not be appropriate depending on length of marriage, kids etc, you could be entitled to a higher split. You can ask your ex to pay costs but he has no obligation to do so, I'd be very surprised if he did!

Why 50/50 on pensions ? Just keep your own pensions

Are you in Scotland or rest of UK?

And you can request a £ value in a pension share, not just a % but whether it fluctuates, that's only relevant for a DC pension.

I’m in England and the pensions are defined contribution schemes. I worked part time for many years for childcare needs and supported his high level career where he spent significant time away, meaning I was unable to progress in my own career. We also jointly agreed not to increase my own pension contributions (with the exception of pay rises) until our mortgage was paid off (3 years to go), so as not to compromise our family disposable income. More fool me, evidently, but after a 23 year relationship I was not expecting him to have an affair with a colleague. That’s why we are not keeping our own pensions.

I will instruct a solicitor for sure, but I was hoping to encourage him to be transparent and honest at this point.

Sounds like he is hiding something. You’re right to push for transparency. Your pension will be really important as you get older and it’s completely reasonable to split pensions when he had the opportunity to build his during the marriage. Good luck.

Most women make that mistake. Most men very rarely are transparent or reasonable over money.
Don’t be a fool get a solicitor

How much is his pension? If it’s over 100k and or public sector get a PODE

You really need a solicitor. STBExH and I havent split our pensions, but they have been taken into account when it comes to how we are splitting the money from the house.

So Ex has a few grand more in his, we took the figures from the what was paid in during our marriage up until the separation date. I'm getting a few grand more out of the house sale to top mine up to the same value. I will initially use this to buy another property, but long term I know I need to make some more payments into my pension to top it up

Your gut instinct is spot on, with regards to showing each other the respect of transparency. I’d put money on his not being honest.

im sorry, it really is time to do it ‘Officially’.

if your career was impacted by parenting, then 50:50 is only reasonable if you have someone recovered and caught up with his overall earnings.

im willing to lay odds this is not the case.

thr other important point is that if you start at 50:50 then you do not have any room for negoviation , so you might likely find yourself with significantly less.

don’t feel bad, you gave him a chance to be straight and he has not stepped up. Protect yourself and your children, please don’t rely on his being fair.

All the best.

You need a solicitor and you and your husband need to complete Form E. It will get laid out on Form E side by side - work pensions as well as State pensions so that you have a Schedule of Assets. Don't forget about the value of these. The values of the pensions start from the date you started living together and others are correct in saying you talk %s and not numbers. When my ex h and I were divorcing the value in the pension changed over the length of time. The aim is to provide you both with an equitable situation going forward. He needs to get the proper information and put it on that form. You could get an accountant to ensure a fair split. I think it cost us about 1200. And yes the % is from the date of the pension sharing order so you may not know exactly how much until the day that happens. The CETV is obviously a value at the time it was requested.

Thank you all. I think it’s a combination of incompetence and not wanting me to know how much he has accrued in savings since we separated (I know it’s around £30k, his one drive syncs to our daughters laptop and she’s found his figures). I’m not expecting any of that money, nor any of the extra from his pension accrued since separation, but I do want to try and build a case for a departure from equality on house equity due to the huge income disparity, his additional liquid assets and the fact I look after our daughter 85% of the time. Therefore I really don’t want to antagonise him on the pension front, but it is getting a bit silly now, putting up with his nonsense.

You don't need to worry about antagonising him - he will be compelled by the law to cooperate and provide the necessary details. Anyway - so what if he is antagonised? This is your one chance to get what you need to see you into the future. How long have you been separated?

He moved into his rental at the end of May. I’m just really nervous as my own salary isn’t that bad, although to get a mortgage on a decent property in an area my daughter can get to school, I’m going to need a mortgage for many years. He will of course be able to get a very short mortgage as his earnings are around £180k pa. But I’ve had a lot of mixed advice on whether or not i will just be expected to suck it up, get a 20 year mortgage (I’m 43) and ill not get more than 50% equity. So I am trying to balance the money and stress spent on fighting vs potential extra equity. We were together 23 years and built our whole lives together, it all just feels so upsetting that he will be living the life of Riley with his mistress in our old marital home, off on multiple holidays, weekends away etc, whilst I’m stuck in a shoebox paying a mortgage into my 60s. I get that probably sounds precious, it just bites hard sometimes.

On that information, I imagine a solicitor would pay for themselves.

You must get a solicitor! You will be entitled to more than 50% I can assure you (think more 60-65%) based on your length of marriage and taking a back seat career wise etc. He must also split everything he has accrued since you separated, so savings, pension etc. It's technically joint assets until you divorce. The divorce settlement should enable you to afford a similar property as him. If you can't do that on your salary then you must be compensated in the financial split i.e. you get a lot more than half.
A long marriage with children where the wife supports the husband's by doing more raising of the kids etc is viewed very differently in divorce than say a short marriage, or one with no children, where perhaps the wife has not forgone her career. Get advice 🌼

That is not a given at all im
afraid but of course op should have proper legal advice.
divorce outcome does not at all
stipulate they have to have equal housing just that both are housed adequately- and if op has decent salary and can get a mortgage that is also considered

depending on the pot and incomes op may be successful in arguing a need for higher share of capital

cms is usually applied to help income differential where op will be having child more

OP has already explained her career was sacrificed for many years working part-time etc plus her pension was also not contributed to the same as her ex. It absolutely will not be 50:50 if a decent family law solicitor gets involved. Only if OP is earning similar to her ex would 50:50 be deemed appropriate.

I know op has. And it’s still not a given that she’d be awarded more than 50/50