Separation- how to?

[CleverOpalBalonz]

Hi all, I’ve been active on mumsnet on and off over the years but not for a couple of years now. I’ve been married for 14 years, together for 20 and have 2 children, youngest about to start high school. My marriage hasn’t been good for a long time. It’s deteriorated a lot the last 12 months though. I don’t think I can stay much longer.

Theres no communication at all, I isolate myself at home because I feel like I can’t be myself around him. I don’t feel like I watch my tv or listen to my music because we just don’t have anything in common anymore. He’s a great Dad. I just don’t think we’re setting a good example marriage at all though. I think I’m past the point of counselling because even the way he stands annoys me. There’s been no intimacy for years now.

i work part time, he works full time. He earns around 40% more than me but all our money goes into a joint account. We have a mortgage on our house. We have no savings but quite a bit of debt. I could go back full time but the reason I’m part time was to look after the dog so he’s not home alone as we’ve struggled with dog walkers.

So I’m at the point of needing to plan and I don’t know how it all works. I haven’t mentioned it to him yet. Would I move out and rent whilst paying half the mortgage as it’s me that will be suggesting it? I’d struggle massively doing that at the moment. My wage is would just about cover rent, mortgage and and my debts I reckon. Ideally I’d like the stay in the home, mainly because I don’t think he’d look after it properly. How do people cope with the change in lifestyle? We live in a nice area near schools but rent here is expensive, I’d have to move a few miles away to a cheaper area I think to afford rent.

im thinking of February (after Christmas and Childs birthday) or if high school transition goes well maybe November. I just can’t keep putting up with this and know I’d be happier on my own.

Apologies for the ramble, I’m upset after another falling out. If anyone knows of free couples counselling I could go to alone I’d appreciate the signpost. Thanks

You’ll need to work full time
unless he’s a very high earner you’ll get your share of assets and cms - depending on what the child arrangements are.

ultimately you’ll need to look at what assets there are and work out a split. Undoubtedly divorce usually makes both parties poorer as you’re proving two homes not one.

if you keep the house you’ll need to either ( most likely ) give up your share of any pension he has and also be able to take on total mortgage and bills as well as give him any share he’s due.

many people live together while divorcing to avoid expense or renting as well

I live near a family with parents who have girls that stay in the same house all the time and the parents move between the house and a small flat they rent. It makes it cheaper, and less disruptive for the kids. However theirs were teens at the time of the split and it is meant to be a short term solution. Not sure if it would work for you especially with the dog to consider.

You will need to get a full time job.
you will be entitled to Half the assets etc
I opted to move and rent in the mean time because I hated the family home, he bought me out of the home and I purchased my own home.
custody is 50:50 and I get no maintenance because of this. Even though he earns 20k more. He pays the very small childcare bill though.
Go back to work full time now if you can.

Thanks, I will speak to my manager soon about going full time. Shouldn’t be a problem and I only recently reduced my hours to facilitate husbands job really, although I wasn’t quite full time but near enough.

I did think of the kids staying in the home and us swapping but we have very different ideas on cleaning and maintenance, the house is awful at the moment because I’ve slowly given up doing more than my share. We have about £150-180k equity in it I should think though.

I think 50:50 would work custody wise, he is a very good and whilst I’ve stayed so long for the kids I just can’t anymore as I’m losing myself more and more. I just hope they understand but I’m also at the point where I think they can see it in me.

i think the finances will be the hardest thing, he has accumulated more debt than I knew of, im not sure whether it’s just been him living beyond means. I also have some debt but it can all be accounted for - again living beyond means but holidays, car etc. He recently got a bonus that he promptly swept from the joint account even though we’d agreed what we were spending some of it on and I’d put that on a credit card with the agreement it’d be paid off when the bonus came through a few weeks later. I was told I wasn’t seeing that bonus basically. So I’m apprehensive about finances now. Would we be best trying to sort finances out first - wages into own account then bills from joint account with us paying into it? Trying to avoid further problems.

Personally I’d get wages into my own account and transfer into a joint one for bills.

the debt may be treated as joint marital debt

what’s the value of assets ( inc pensions) and total debt

think about each of your housing needs - they’re the same - so what could that look like
will one of buy the other out? Is it possible? Will you sell and split monies? Etc

ultimately it best to try to agree and negotiate between you with the support of mediators and solicitors if needed_ but if either of you start taking a more demanding approach the legal bills will ratchet up quick.

Hello there,

Reaching out as I am going through similar. My intention is to not move out and rent as I simply wouldn't be able to afford to do so and pay the mortgage. I did some calculations although I knew deep down even if I didn't take half the pension when it comes to it I could afford to pay the current mortgage and utilities but I couldn't afford to buy him out, at least based on a 50:50 split. I will need to buy a smaller property ultimately. We have minimal debt and quite a bit equity but I'll still need to get a small mortgage.

Have a look at the calculators on Wikivorce and see if they offer any insight.

Agree with OP ultimately you/I will be living in less substantial housing and will be financially worse off. I guess you need to weigh all that up which I have done and I'm ok with it having done it before I was married.

Do keep coming back for support. Its a tough old time and do take care of yourself.

Can you not make your current home happy for yourself and organise your social life more to your liking for a few more years?

If you know the marriage is over, you might feel free to live like respectful, happy and kind, flatmates until the children have finished at their school.
Can you make space in your current house for you and your husband to each have a private space? You might use the extra few years to work full time, save more, reduce debt and plan for a more successful separation.

Thanks, the wikivorce site is helpful.

I think my biggest concern is that I probably can only afford a 2 bedroom house, I have 2 children who currently have their own large rooms and they’re unlikely to want to share. They’re at the age of being able to decide about contact, or soon will be so I don’t want them to feel like they can’t spend time with me because of logistics and lose them that way. I suspect H will want to try to buy me out if possible, I won’t be able to afford that I shouldn’t think.

I don’t think I can make do until the children are older, I’ve been trying that for nearly a decade already and it’s wearing me down. I’m booking a counselling session for myself.

Think very carefully before moving out of the family home. You don’t know how this will go down with the kids.
the family home might not be precious to you but it will likely be to the kids.

@CleverOpalBalonz glad you found it helpful. Have a look at www.stowefamilylaw.co.uk, there's some good information on there.

I think have a clear idea in your mind or on paper (keep it hidden!) various options based on a 50:50 split as a bare minimum what it would look like to remain in the home as a divorcee or moving out and buying a new property. See what is manageable.

There is never a right time to make these decisions for yourself and DC but DC will pick up on you not being happy in the marriage. I'm sure mine do and I know they would want me happy.

Just NC’d to join in on this. In similar position but not married - which is good because we are similar earners and I have much better pension.
I went to see mortgage advisor and it was a better scenario than I thought in terms of buying out. Might be worth actually talking the figures through with them.

I’m also waiting for a child to settle in with a new school transition, and…..not sure what else I’m waiting for to be honest. Building up my savings. Fear of change and fear of distress to children. 🙁

How much debt do you think there is? How old are your children?
I’d be tempted to try a 6-12 month ‘sort out’ period. Go full time, pay off debts, sort the house out.
If you have no debts and a well presented house (and therefore likely to be valued higher) you’ll be in a better financial position. Might enable you to rent/buy a 3 bed.
I wouldn’t move out while it’s sorted- puts you on the back foot, he’ll be in no rush to sort finances and your kids might feel you deserted them. Stay until you have your ducks in a row.
A mortgage company will likely want to see what your finances look like with 6 months of your full time salary too.
Do you have space in your house to have separate bedrooms, separate living space in the meantime?

I'd agree with @FrustratedOldLady please don't move anywhere from the family home until things are 'sorted' and you've got yourself in a pretty good position. I mean ideally we'd all want to be in the very best position but what does that look like realistically and can you wait for that time to come. I was told to start saving my supermarket points and putting a bit of cash aside each month that doesn't actually need to go into a bank account (if you're able to do this). Also, I know one lady started preparing for a year ahead so buying Christmas/birthday presents for the following year. I guess it depends on how prepared you want to be.

I can’t advise on the finances part but I just want to say….go for it.

I have been in your exact situation and finally told my husband recently. To my surprise he completely agreed and we sat and shared a beer over the conversation. It’s incredibly amicable and mutual, and for this reason I think, the kids also seem fine with it.

Because there’s no bad atmosphere (in fact the house is now a happier place) we are fine living together until the house sells before the end of the year.

I really hope it goes as well for you, although I gratefully recognise that our situation is unusually trouble-free.

@Annoyingmoths sorry you’re in the same situation, it’s not a good place, for me at least.

Thanks for all of the practical advice people have offered. Funnily enough I have started to squirrel away a bit of cash. I’m just going to focus on getting things organised and I’ve requested the full time hours at work. I’m going to gather all my paperwork together and will start separating some finances.

I’m not sure how long I’ll be able to keep going in the same house, I’ve come 8 years being unhappy ‘for the kids’ and now really regret not leaving when they were small. It seems much harder now. I’m not sure I could keep going until they leave home/ become adults. I feel like I freeze when we’re in the same room and I can’t be myself at all. I have started to organise more social things with friends though which I’m happy about.

I just wanted to express solidarity with you AmyDuPlantier - I am in the same boat and feel the exact same way as you. We have done counselling and I still feel the same. DH can’t accept it at all though so we are in limbo until I find the courage to move things on. We will get there, one step at a time.

I’m in the same boat@CleverOpalBalonz - I wish I’d done something years ago. I’m really unhappy but can’t seem to make the jump. It’s miserable in our house (though he’s acting like all is well). Sorry not to have a more positive response - but just to say it’s blummin tough and a long road. Sending

Just a bit of an update and a question or two. I’ve had a counselling session, surprisingly the counsellor agreed that separation seemed the only option as I am done with the relationship. I’ve been looking at my finances and getting things in order slowly.

We currently have a spare room, it doesn’t currently have a bed in it but I am thinking of repainting it and moving in there and that will obviously require telling the children what’s going on. How have your kids managed with you being separated whilst living together? Has this been too difficult for them whilst everything else gets in order?

Next question is around housing, I loved my current house when we moved in, but due to husbands dodgy DIY and refusal to fix some issues it holds a lot of resentment for me now. I’m thinking I wouldn’t actually mind me being the one to move out and have a fresh start. The only concern I have around that is that currently both kids have their own largeish bedroom. I will be able to afford a 3 bed most likely (will need financial advice first) but one room will possibly be a box room. My worry with this is that they won’t want to come stay with me because of this. Unless I take the box room. Or do I push for me to keep the family home? I should add my youngest (11) is very much for me, they make no secret of their preference for me and they also have difficulties with their emotions so I’m thinking me staying at the family home would be more beneficial for them. But how could I get this agreed to by husband?

Has anyone used a mediation service such as amicable for the divorce? Has this been useful? How has the mediation worked in relation to housing?

You can manage the spare room question with ‘you are having trouble sleeping, your back hurts, you get up or go to sleep at different times etc’

My only worry with this is that when we do tell them about the separation they’ll know it was a lie. They’re nearly 14 and 11 and the eldest in particular hates not being told what’s going on.

I’m struggling time line wise as want to avoid telling them near Christmas so ruling out December. I also want youngest to settle in new school which so far is going well, plus we have a short break booked altogether in October we still intend on going on.

I know there’s no perfect time but living together is uncomfortable at the minute with us only communicating around the children.

With that timeline, I would wait until their next break from school so we half term midterm where they have a week off. I chose mine the beginning of their Halloween holidays. I told them on the Friday night so that they had a good bit of time to get used to things and ask questions without having to deal with School. Realistically, you’re looking until after Christmas, maybe Easter.
For what it’s worth, I was the one that moved out of the family home. I rented and then bought a new home. My rented house is much nicer than the old family house, but they still go to stay with their dad as we have 50-50 custody. So my point is even if your house has smaller bedrooms they won’t care if they just wanna see their parents.

We have been in separate rooms for a good couple of months now. We did initially say it was because of his snoring - but tbh we told them the truth quite quickly (the snoring wasn't a lie though...)

Separate rooms has always felt like a sticking plaster though. Much as I wish it was different, I can't see how we do anything other than live separately. We're talking about it as a temporary thing, but again I don't see how we come back from it. I'm going along with because he's not as far along in thinking things through as me - and maybe it helps the DCs?? I don't know.

I am also now worried sick about telling them. He didn't come on the family holiday so they know things aren't right. But they've seemingly accepted this separated-but-living-together situation as the new normal. Hopefully it will be the same once he's moved out.

It's all so horrible isn't it? I feel so responsible but unable to do anything else.

It’s a really horrible situation, and one I’m sure none of us thought we’d ever be in. I’m actually quite excited about having my own space. I tense as soon as he comes into a room unless a child is present. I’m not sure how long I’d manage in the small spare room though as I’m very much isolating myself upstairs most evenings at the minute unless I’m doing something with the children.

I feel like now I’ve made the decision I just want to fast forward to the end point but obviously that isn’t possible.

The only space I get to myself is when I go to bed. We’re still having family meals and watching TV (with oldest DC). Though he does fall asleep at about 9pm every night.

I'm a little bit further on than you, but some of what you've written is very familiar to me.

Married 21 years now, although we're in the middle of our divorce and it's just the finances that are a sticking point as he has some wealth which he obviously wants to hang onto whereas I was a SAHM and have had little to put on the table. That said he's moved on a bit from 'you can have my pension and the car' although we are still nowhere near a settlement and my solicitor almost laughed at what had been proposed.

For a bit of background - we have 3 children, two in their teens and one just beyond that. Marriage had slowly got worse and worse. No fighting or anything, just an indifference. His hobbies massively took priority over family time and we didn't spend any time as a couple or doing things as a family. I didn't return to our shared bedroom once my youngest was born. Intimacy was non existent and I would inwardly recoil at any physical contact. I took my wedding ring off in 2020.

I think the final straw for me was Christmas 2022, when, despite him having gone to the local supermarket to get some beer in for himself to drink over the Christmas break, there was nothing for me under the tree. So while he and our children sat opening the presents that I had got them, I sat and watched. I shed few quiet tears in the kitchen because I felt so very overlooked and just worthless, actually. That he hadn't even bothered to grab a bottle of wine while he was at the shop, which would have required no planning or thought really cut deep.

In the evenings we would sit in separate rooms, so barely spent any time together. My middle child once said, unprompted, 'You and Dad might as well get divorced, Mum - although you don't want half his money' to which I replied that I would like SOME at least, to get set up elsewhere. I told my children on more than one occasion that the relationship that me and their Dad had was not normal and that they shouldn't model any future relationships on what they had witnessed!

Anyway, I now rent very locally to the family home. The children have free choice as to who they stay with, although we are going to have to get a more formal EOW set up going I think. Youngest child originally said they would stay at the house they had grown up in as it was 'home' but started spending more time round at mine which is lovely. I do love having my own place even though it is a fraction of the size of the family home.

We went through National Family Mediation (H didn't want to use solicitors at all as he didn't want the expense, although he has now consulted one - on the recommendation of the mediator). It was probably mediation that got him to see that his pension and car offer just wasn't going to cut it!

Telling the children was fine, actually. We just said that we were separating and would be getting divorced. For the first few months things didn't really change at home for them, other than that their Dad was out all the time looking for a new significant other and before he met his now girlfriend although he'd been repeatedly asking when I'd be moving out as it was a bit of a block to potential dates knowing that we were still living in the same house. When I finally found my house he said there was no rush for me to leave as it suited him me being there - clearly because he had freedom to go out and stay out, knowing that I was with the children!

Sorry, that got long!