Financial settlement - panicking

[CucumberMelon]

Hi, this is going to be long so apologies for that.

My husband has left me within the last month after a period of mental abuse/cheating. Last year, he also revealed to me that he had been hiding £15K of credit card debt from me which we paid off with some extra borrowing on a remortgage (he has since taken a loan out and paid me that back, which is odd behaviour) I also found out that the job he was made redundant from last year - he was actually sacked for bullying two female colleagues. Apparently he had multiple warnings before they eventually sacked him. His new workplace are unaware of this which I find terrifying but this all outlines what type of character he turned out to be.

We were married for 2.5 years but living together for 5 years in total.

I paid all of the deposit on the marital home from a settlement from my first divorce. In the same settlement I was also awarded a share of my ex husband's pension - the pot now stands at around £300K. This has grown due to passively over the last five years and I don't contribute anything towards it.

My STBXH has nothing. No assets or anything. He is feckless with money and has debts.

I have spoken to a solicitor who gave me a really grim view of what he could take from me and I am spiralling. He is a higher earner than me (I earn £26K and he earns around £39K) and could get a new property with a smaller share of the equity from this house than I could with a smaller share. My proposal would be that I keep the deposit and offer him the equity accrued in the marriage and then a larger chunk of my pension. My immediate concern is being able to afford somewhere to live.

The equity in the house is around £130,000 (£111,000 of that is my deposit) so I would like to offer him £29,000 and possibly up to £100,000 of my pension.

I should also say that he doesn't have the means to fight me in court. I don't really have any means to fight him either but I could lay my hands on funds if absolutely necessary.

If I made him this kind of offer and accepted, what is the likelihood that the court would agree it?

I am very battered and anxious so empathy would be hugely appreciated. Thank you.

It's too late now to say pre nup but maybe for the future or others reading. Please don't come back as not legally binding - while this is technically true practice is very different.
@CucumberMelon get a lawyer you gel with. Fight for what's yours . Don't give in like people I know because they didn't have the appetite for it.

No.

In my first marriage I gave up a relatively well paid job to raise our child. This allowed my ex H to further his career. That's 11 years of my own pension missed out on.

2 1/2 years is a short marriage. You have no DC. It should be more or less leave what you entered with.

Sorry you are going through this. I would call a few solicitors and switch personally. It sounds like it could be argued it is a short marriage where i understand the position is people leave in a financial position more like the one they entered with, so you shouldnt have to give much. I know a very rich lady in a similar position that gave her ex 30k to go away after a short marriage. Key thing here is probably to get it done asap and not have it turn in to a medium term marriage by one party dragging it out.

This is incorrect, and there’s a lot of posters who are also giving this incorrect advice.

It is NOT a short marriage situation because you have been cohabiting for 5 years so that is the time they look at- not just the length of the actual marriage. Your solicitor is correct.

If you had met 2.5 years ago and immediately got married then yes, it’s a short marriage, but when you get married they look to the date of cohabiting to measure so in this case it does not fall under short marriage guidance.

If married 2.5 years and all in all living together for 5 it comes just within the short marriage argument. The less formal the living together arrangements, then the more that period can be argued that it did not count from what ive read. How joint were bills etc and how formal were things during living together op? Were you both named on bills etc? As if not formal that is another argument in favour of short relationship.

Alot of divorce is negotiation so for me op should be arguing short marriage, why on earth wouldn't she? Solicitors interpret the law and arguments differently, best get one who is going to work for you, not against you. Mediation is another option.

www.33bedfordrow.co.uk/insights/articles/financial-remedies-short-marriage

Offer him £20,000 and see what he says to walk away.

For someone who is feckless with money he might snap your hand off

I would absolutely do this but what are the chances of a judge signing it off?

I've also just found this passage whilst Googling...

"Any time spent living together as a couple before the marriage will be counted by the Court towards the total length of the marriage, provided that there has been a seamless transition from cohabitation to marriage. Evidence to determine when the period of pre-marital cohabitation started includes buying a house together or signing a joint tenancy agreement for rented accommodation."

We did not buy a house or sign any joint tenancy agreements until 2022. He lodged at my old house for two years and his name was on nothing. He was a lodger effectively. Yet this solicitor thinks that would count. We were testing the water BEFORE buying a house together to make sure it would work?

It sounds like your ex has a solicitor who is arguing his case. You really need one who will argue yours. Is there evidence of your ex paying rent to you prior to 2022? If not, you could argue 3 year serious relationship potentially?

In your shoes i would get a solicitor who is going to truly stand in your corner.or push straight to mediation with a view to paying ex 20k to 40k to go away. It sounds like you have assets so 20 to 40k may be worth it to avoid court and spending loads on solicitors.

In that case you can say that you weren't living together full-time until 2022 but that he stayed at yours sometimes, unless there was a lodger agreement in place but it sounds more informal than that. There is absolutely no way he could prove anything else if he didn't way any bills or was registered on the electoral roll at your address.

Even in the event of a 5 year timeline, the 50:50 can be deviated where it can be demonstrated one party didn’t contribute and there are no dependents. It’s not an automatic 50:50 and judges can and do award differently in these situations.

you have a strong case.

I don't know. I emailed him after my solicitor's appointment on Tuesday to say I had seen one and asked what his intentions were regarding the divorce and he just said I have a meeting with a solicitor this week to see "what my rights are"

He bunged me a couple of hundred a month to cover shopping/broadband etc but nothing formal.

Ok so it sounds like your ex doesnt necessarily have a great solicitor himself. Solicitors really vary alot. It may be worth calling round a few to see if you can get a feel for whether you could find a better one or trying to get recommendations on facebook or similar for good ones that will fight your corner.

Solicitors letters of course imho only work if the other party is intimidated by them essentially as the real powers lie with court. It may be worth reminding yourself of this if you get a threatening solicitors letter asking for a 50:50 split. Just because a solicitor asks for something for their client does not make it gospel. It is all open to interpretation, posturing and negotiation.

I hope you won't mind this question OP, my situation has some similarities.

You are asking if a court will agree something if you and H have agreed it together. Does the court have to be involved?

Is it possible to make a joint application for divorce with no child or financial orders? In other words stating you agree to revert to the respective financial position before (a short) marriage and agreeing child contact between yourselves?

Yes a judge has to approve a financial order even if the parties agree.

@CucumberMelonI wouldn't be e mailing him. Leave this to your solicitor. What do you mean you wanted to know what his intentions were?

The judge will decide at the final hearing what the outcome is, not the solicitors. You could both spend a lot of money only for the judge to say 50/50 which happened to me, the judge actually told both solicitors to "stop milking the cow"
Your ex will be able to get a "good" solicitor who will accept payment after the financial settlement so please don't think he will be misrepresented. With £300K in a pension pot plus a house there's no way he, or a judge, would accept a £20K settlement. Would you if the roles were reversed?

I'm not sure why people think the pension would come into it here - the home is unfortunately at risk as a marital asset but even in long marriages the law is relatively clear that prior assets are protected as they are not the fruit of the marriage (the only way to go after it would be with a needs based argument but the pension is not a marital asset as a starting point as it preceded the marriage).

That's true in Scotland but not in England. A judge will definitely take into account any pension accrued pre marriage in determining a fair outcome for both parties.

It’s not a given that the pension is included.

in a long marriage and needs based divorce pre marital assets can be included fur dividion. This doesn’t fall into that category.

so op may be successful in excluding it and certainly any starting offer should exclude it

You need a better solicitor, it absolutely is a short marriage. And women need to stop getting married.

Show me where £20k was mentioned?

I think it was myself and some others that mentioned 20k as a starting point. With ideas re financial settlements, people and solicitors can have very different ideas. You will always get naysayers. From what i have seen, things only get reality tested at the point that barristers are involved. Judges too, it seems can have different outlooks (my partner was told this by barrister at his divorce court case). Most divorces don’t reach that point making most of it largely down to negotiation.

In terms of anxieties re what a judge will sign off, this may help reassure you, there are no official stats but it says they are more cautious when children involved and if no children then presumably less likely to be queried
https://www.divorce-online.co.uk/blog/can-a-consent-order-be-rejected-by-the-court-a-uk-solicitor-explains/

The uncertainty over finances with divorce can be one of the most stressful parts of it all. It is totally natural to be worried and stressed out by all of this. It is massively unsettling. An action plan for next steps may help?

I’d accept yes. As I’m a fully functioning adult, capable of working and paying my own way and I feel no sense of entitlement to other people’s assets/money/income that I haven’t contributed to, especially when I’ve not forgone any opportunity and I haven’t home raising kids.