Am I crazy?

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Together 23 years, married 18 feeling so ridiculously unhappy. Two kids 13 and 15. Feeling financially trapped. Lucky to have lovely and large house. Possibly c£220k equity.
He works 37 hours in a management roleplus commutes 2/3 days per week, 1 hour approx door to door each way. I work 30 hours, 1 day in office in a busy, fast paced role. I earn about a third of what he does.
I was a sahm for 7 years and think he got used to that dynamic of everything done.
We had hardly any money then, so I got very good at working hard cooking from scratch, being thrifty with second hand clothes etc

I went back to work full time 4 1/2 years ago, having been part time for a few years. The arguments started then. He is financially obsessed, constantly taking about budgets, spreadsheets, pensions etc and was delighted with additional income. I made it clear he'd have to step up with housework. He did nothing at all for 7/8 months and we had an explosive argument. He promised to clean the bathrooms and cook one evening per week. It stopped after a few weeks. We have basically had that argument on repeat for years, slight improvement then falling back.

Yesterday it flared again, triggered by something else. The fact that he'd not cleaned the bathrooms for four weeks came up. He was criticising DD15 for something and I thought he was being mean and a hypocrite. It all flooded out. He works a day more than me, and commutes by train and walks the dog 80% of the time. So it's not fair that he's have to do anything else

I feel like a switch turned off. I can't keep doing this. I know I have more time in theory, but when I say I do everything else, I do mean everything, except for arranging insurance and physically paying bills for example. I can, but I have to draw the line and he willingly does this.

He will occasionally hang up some laundry, or fold some and he orders the dog food. But all meal planning, shopping and cooking, everything school related, dentist, orthodontist, doctors, all cleaning, changing bedding, sorting kids clothes/getting them new clothes, Grass cutting, weeding, Christmas and birthday 'magic', arranging dog vets stuff, groomer etc all me.

Bedroom is unsurprisingly dead. But that is my fault apparently. If I want to have a family day out, I suggest and plan. We rarely go out to eat or get takeaway. Joint income is c£100k before tax. We could afford it. We plan holidays, always do it ourselves to be tailored, but let's face it, cheaper. God forbid I don't do my half of that planning.

I do have a day 'off' work. This is thrown at me a LOT. I am made to feel bad if I don't walk the dog, as I'm leaving it to him. I'm not imagining thisz he confirmed it yesterday

He is a 'nice' man. But I don't feel loved (he tells me several times a day, but it's feeling more like a platitude every day) or cherished. I feel under appreciated and run ragged. I am terrified to leave and upset my kids/ruin their cosy lives. I don't want a relationship ever again. I just want to be able to please myself

Don't know what in asking really. I'm venting and looking for some perspective
Sorry it's so long. I'm feeling so sad that I have physical pain in my body .

Neither of you work particularly long hours so should have plenty of time to do all these things - shared and he needs to play his part but you also have more time so could do some on the day you don’t work.

get a cleaner a few hours a week

your 15 yo should be helping too

have you made it clear to him that it makes you deal undervalued and unloved? What does he say ?

If both of you are working full-time then it must be very hectic. Why not invest in your marriage by outsourcing as much as you can, like cleaning etc. It makes your life so much easier and more relaxed. If you're even paying for a cleaner two hours a day it would be a hell of a lot cheaper than divorcing and a hell of a nicer to come back to than having your kids live separately half the week.

i do have a day 'off' work. This is thrown at me a LOT. I am made to feel bad if I don't walk the dog, as I'm leaving it to him. I'm not imagining thisz he confirmed it yesterday
I agree with him on this, it's pretty poor and neglectful of you not to walk the dog at all on your day off.

You could try marriage counselling first or a cleaner/gardener but I find that once a woman is done, she is done.

Instead of looking at what you do in the house try to change it around and look at what he brings to the relationship. If you are doing nearly everything what would you need to take on as extra if he left tomorrow, and what would stop?

When mine left I stopped wasting time putting the toilet seat down, throwing away empty toilet rolls, crisp packets, multiple mugs, hoovering up his crumbs because plates do not exist, cleaning light switches and the bannister because he never cleaned dirt off his hands properly. I didn't have to waste time and energy shutting kitchen cupboards or drawers in the bedroom, or go round at night checking he'd locked the doors even when he said he had (but actually hadn't). Surprisingly enough I gained over an hour a day free time which equals 7 whole hours a week, almost a full working day because I wasn't cleaning up after him 😳 In comparison I took on ummm.... changing light bulbs and putting the bin out (I brought it back in). Interestingly the bin no longer needs jet washing every month either.

Sorry for waffling, but sometimes it really is in the little things.

I relate to a lot of this but have been married 7 years with much younger kids. And I'm done. I just am too scared to tell him

The problem is once the resentment or contempt sets in, it's v hard to fix, and impossible unless both of you are willing to try. I work longer hours than H and earn twice as much and do 80% of everything. After lots of fights...H agreed to do cooking and kids uniforms. My friends often comment how lucky I am having a husband that cooks and does a big chunk of laundry but we arent a partnership. The relationship is transactional and a constant "I did this or that".

No cleaner or rota will fix the lack of love. I feel exhausted. He feels hard done by. And if I try to talk to him he shouts and gets defensive and insulting

I guess my point is these things start as about an equal split of stuff, but resentment and contempt set in and those are the killers - not the dog walk or the toilet cleaning.

I would start getting your ducks in a row to LTB, have a look on the Relationships board, there are droves of women leaving useless husbands rubbish marriages for just this reason. I’m one of them and never felt happier. Good luck OP x

I don't mean I don't walk the dog on my day off. I mean just generally. I see how you could read it as that.
I love walking the dog actually. Really love it. But when there are a million things to do, and I know that I can leave this one thing to him/or for one day to be skipped, I will. I actually said the other day, I'd walk her every day if he cleaned the loo

I put a number of solutions in place.

Firstly, I trained everyone to use the washing machine. I bought a laundry basket and a couple of ikea bags and an airer each.

My DH found it harder to object to doing his own laundry when the kids were doing theirs. Also I just stopped doing it.

We had a sign up system for meals. The plan went on the fridge each Sunday and people ticked the meal they were in for. No ticks - I got myself take out.

I also split meals at the weekends and got the kids on the cooking rotation. So four meals at the weekend - one meal each. They usually made salad or a simple pasta dish but it forced DH to step up, again because it was clearly fair that he took part.

We also got a cleaner (which to be fair he paid for).

Stop doing stuff for him. Try to make the set up more like a house share. If the consequences of him not doing something falls on him he is more likely to do it.

I was done though, and in time we did divorce.

That is an interesting idea. How do you feel about your DH now though?
I don't know whether I could stop doing the stuff. Partly habit and partly people pleasing. Probably with a sprinkle of the martyr, I don't want this to be true but it's been years.
I just keep thinking how he thinks he's shackled. But honestly, compared to me.
I'm certain that the reality is that he genuinely no idea what keeping a house and family in a decent order takes. I just keep wondering what he'd do if I wasn't there.
I have suggested/requested cleaners before and he says no, don't need it, he'll do xyz. Does it for a few weeks and then it stops.
I'll consider it.

This resentment was in my marriage. My ex ended up having an affair but I think another year or so and I would have left him. I was still in the trying to make things better mode - cleaner, calendar, sitting down each week to plan things, but inside I felt very little for him. I just didn't want my family to split.
Now I'm divorced, my house looks great. My garden is lovely. The jobs all get done with no nagging or shouting or arguing, as I do them or my kids do to get pocket money. There is nothing I miss. I have done DIY courses, not that my ex did any DIY, so I can fix quite a few things. I have way more time. My ex only has kids once a fortnight overnight, but 3 times a week generally, and I use that time to do stuff for me or catch up with friends. I'm probably over selling this. The betrayal was awful and the first 6 months were tough, but 2 years on I'm loving it. I earn ok money and my ex pays maintenance so I'm financially secure. I also took over the mortgage from the house. My kids were 8 and 10. It was tough for them but they see I'm there and reliable and they get disney dad. They are fine now.

The thing that is worst, is that he is incredibly important to me. We have in jokes, shared history and we can still have a laugh.
I am really struggling to picture a future without him. But I am equally struggling to picture a future with him right now.

This is the other worry.
I'm grieving, I'm grieving for the friend and lover I thought I had.
I'm grieving for the dad I thought he'd be

I think you’ve answered you’re own post op

youre a people pleaser and maryter

things will only change once you change this.
and hire a cleaner! be clear - it’s happening because he undervalues you and disrespects your contribution. That you shouldn’t have to beg him to ‘help’ because it’s is house and family and mess too

The first bit of this comment feels unhelpful. Because I have advocated strongly for myself. Against my comfort feelings. I have also left things, not bagged, not stepped in, he went 7 weeks without cleaning the bathroom our then 11 and 13 year old used.
The hiring a cleaner, it's funny, I can't see how this would go if I just did it. I try to imagine the outcome and draw a blank. I honestly think he'd be furious.
The last bit is the bit I'm really asking.
If I didn't work at all, I'd not be here. I might still feel undervalued but I'd see that it was fair.
I'm being told that what he does is fair and that feels untrue.

My pet theory is this is nature at work (and he's a lazy thoughtless bugger too, and societal norms suck for women).

When non-pack mammals have babies the mothers commit time energy resources to the babies. As baby animals mature the mother starts letting the semi adult offspring "suffer" in order for them to become self sustaining.

Look at bitches with puppies - they positively bash their puppies to piss off as juveniles! They too just want to be left alone. Male elephants are booted out at a certain age by the matriarchs.

That you want to be alone after years of caring non stop for others seems perfectly reasonable to me.

So find a balance. Double your expectations of what your children do as part of the family routines, and halve what you do for the family, telling them this is part of your commitment to them growing more independent.

Just get a cleaner. If you do the cleaning then DH has no role in deciding if one is "allowed".

Cook three days a week. That's it. They either cook or have sandwiches for tea.

Go out at least once a week for yourself- sit in a cafe with a book, see a film, join a club - but get out of the house doing non-house and non-family stuff.

Smaller changes now will possibly avoid a massive implosion of the family unit down the line.

You have money so put things in place to make life easier for you both. Cleaner, a couple of take aways a week or even just simple ready meals. You don't need to be doing everything and to be honest it sounds like he has long days with long commute etc . We are very time poor between us as a couple, we do little cleaning and prioritise that the dog gets walked a few times a day and longer walks at the weekend. If I could afford a cleaner or dog walker to take the pressure off I would do it in a heartbeat but we are on a much lower income than you.

It doesn't matter that he thinks he does an equal amount. Every research ever shows women do more than men think, at home, that men over estimate their domestic contribution, and that women's mental health is impacted by unpaid work and this inequality.

Show him

www.bps.org.uk/research-digest/women-bear-brunt-unpaid-labour-and-it-may-be-affecting-their-mental-health

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/phpr.12929

yougov.co.uk/society/articles/43506-men-and-women-disagree-how-much-they-contribute-ho

I have a housekeeper and a cleaner and a dog walker. Cost under £500pcm. You can afford this on your income. Just do it.

I don’t do laundry my teenagers do their own and my DH does ours before I was married I used a laundry service.

We earn similar to you and I WFH full time but I’m working or relaxing or being with my kids not here to run the house. We probably have one less holiday a year and I don’t buy lots of clothes or designer stuff and don’t have a fancy car on lease to cover the support we (WE - not me) have at home.

Life is too short to spend it repeating the same thankless tasks over and over again when you could be going to the gym, out with friends, enjoying your husband resentment free, walking the dog for fun not duty, spending time with your children having fun not moaning at them about chores.

I do light housework and he does the bins and that’s about it. At the end of each day when we meet after work the house is tidy, organised and clean. We do our own cooking and tidy up after ourselves but it’s minimal. Somone changes our beds every week and puts fresh towels in etc. I can’t imagine how depressing it is for both of you to argue about him cleaning bathrooms. No wonder there’s no sex.

You married him for a reason, you loved and respected him then, and him you.

You sound completely burnt out and seething with resentment over a million little things that won’t change unless you outsource this stuff. He doesn’t want to do it (because he hasn’t done it) any more than you do.

Tell him it’s help around the house or divorce. Divorce is expensive. Help is a line on his spreadsheet.

I didn’t say it was fair.
you admit you’re a pleaser and a maryter but then don’t like it when I say that’s big part of the problem ….. ok

so you have choices

put up and shut up
leave and divorce
put your foot down, say enough is enough and this is what’s going to happen …. Get a cleaner and stop doing everything

neither of you work excessive hours so there should be plenty of time to sort the house and do loads of other things. And that’s not a dig it simply means from your op neither of you are working 70 hour weeks

He isn't doing anything because he knows you will step up and do it and he may even think it's women's work , did he see his own father do much housework ? My exh was like this , didn't think he should do any jobs , the resentment kicked in until I couldn't bear the sight of him ( obviously few other factors too ) we divorced and I lived happily ever after .

I think it's really odd that pp's solution to having a husband who does the absolute bare minimum to help his wife is to hire a cleaner. It is absolutely not the point. The point being, he should want to share the load, and not leave everything up to the OP. If he loves her, he would make sure that the housework is divided unfairly between them. Not to hire an outside worker to take up the slack of his laziness!

Sure.
but she doesn’t. And keep going over the sane point with him isn’t it seems going to change that.

sometimes people are just different. I know with my now ex, ( not related to cleaning) he was much more fastidious than me. Spent hours and hours cleaning. I didn’t want to - I wanted to spend time doing other things, with kids etc. I said if he wanted to spend hours up to him but don’t expect me to do the sane ( btw I would always keep a clean and tidy house just not to the same level as him!) I loved and respected him, we both worked long hours and I just simply wasn’t prepared up spend my time cleaning and doing chores.

a cleaner helped immensely.

Could you give him a bit of a shock, tell him you're leaving him. Tell him you want him to move out. If he fights for you and promises to change (counselling, genuine sharing of tasks - use fair play cards to do this - and paying for a cleaner to cover the rest), give him a year then if it's not better leave. He probably won't but you've give him a warning and a clear path to save things. If he doesn't it's all on him and you can maybe feel more at peace with it.

I have previously reached the stage of saying I'd leave. It was after me saying in multiple different ways that doing EVERYTHING (even more than I do now, as in now he cooks one night a week) wasn't fair as I was then working full ime albeit term time only.
Counselling has been mooted for years. I'm reluctant as some mutual friends went through a 'reputable' organisation and the result was she should in fact do everything, work and commute longer than him and 'let him' have sex with her at the weekends when he comes back steaming drunk from Rugby. She stayed for a few years but essentially had a mental breakdown. DH is also aware of this.
I'm sure that this is a rare occurrence, so I agreed, if he organised it. Guess what?

So you’re left essentially with the 3 options

put up and shut up
leave and divorce
tey a different way / cleaner plus stop doing everything and see if that helps relieve your resentment