How to approach exMIL involvement?

[ramdomhelmet]

Long time reader and occasional responder/name changed for privacy

posting for other viewpoints as I can’t pinpoint exactly why this is bothering me so much, will try to keep it short.

background:

I’m from the US, got married there, had two (now late primary/early secondary) DC. ExH was completely useless, stopped working etc, ended up divorcing. No one blamed me, not even exMIL. I got full custody, uncontested. A few years later I got work visa for a job I needed in UK, moved with kids to UK, have lived here since. Prior to move he saw DC about once a week for 12-20 hours. ExH did not want more contact at the time.

Although I facilitate as much contact with exH as he would like, contact since the move has been sporadic— sometime he will go six months without calling them. He often doesn’t respond if I send updates/pictures. ExMIL calls them once a week, at the same time every week.

Since moving I have met and married DP, had additional children, and all that is going great! (I know Mumsnet hates blended families but irl there are many very normal ones) we spent the entire summer im the US with my family, and I informed ExH and exMIL beforehand. ExH acknowledged we were coming and has not spoken to me since! We arranged EOW contact time with exMIL at her house, but ExH was always present with her during this contact time.

When we returned, they both resumed their old contact patterns. Now exMIL has asked if they both can come and take the kids on holiday this summer. ExH has still not contacted me since before he saw the kids! I really don’t want to let the DC go on holiday alone with them but I can’t articulate why….

maybe outsiders can help me pinpoint it?

exH is a terrible traveler and real stick in the mud, so I am sure the trip would be mostly managed by exMIL.

I also assume he is not working because the government takes maintenance directly from his wages and I haven’t received anything in six months.

Possibly because he goes 6 months without even calling them. He's a stranger at this point

the sporadical contact every 6 months, the fact he doesn't return your text messages. I'd feel uneasy about this holiday

I wouldn't be happy about it. Dad is the parent and is not in consistent contact. It is lovely that MIL is actively involved, bit maybe suggest that some days out would be the best place to start.

No contact with one adult, one videocall a week with the other does not create a trusted bond between adult and child for them to be the sole adult during a holiday. They need to start with regular contact with all parties, take them for lunch on their own, build up to days out. Can't jump straight to an extended period, madness and not putting the kids first.

However the older child I'd probably talk to, they may be old enough to give their own opinion.

He doesn't know his children well enough to cope in an emergency. I bet he can barely remember their birthdays never mind allergies, blood groups and any medication they are on.

Your children deserve more than spending a few weeks face to face with the reality of a parent who couldn't care less.

OP, I wouldn't be happy about that either. You would be handing your young children over to an ex-mil they won't have seen for a year. Their df refuses to, or can't be bothered to communicate with you.

While your dcs are old enough to express their wishes and to ring you if anything is wrong, I would worry about what would happen if the children weren't returned. You would have to go through the legal process which is never quick, pay American lawyers etc.

Do you trust your ex-mil that much? I don't think I would, in the same circumstances. How flaky is she? Would she care for them properly? Where would she take them on holiday? Would their df be there, given that he dislikes travel?

Could you suggest a holiday for YOU, MIL and DC? I’d be happier with that. If that wouldn’t work what about suggesting she books an Airbnb near you and you do lots of day trips?

i think I’d try and facilitate a holiday/something similar for MIL as she is clearly working hard to keep contact but not let her take them without you.

I think it would depend on where and how long for? Maybe tell exMIL as the kids barely see you it would be best they come to you stay in air bnb visit a neighbouring city for a few days etc so if the kids get home sick you are close by

Sell it to her that it can be a taste test on how the kids her ex will go spending time solely together before a bigger trip

I don't think your unease is out of order but your exMil seems like a reasonable person who does her best to be a supportive grandparent.

Agree with PP, could you suggest a holiday with ExMIL and she could take DC out for day trips. I think that's a good compromise tbh.

Despite her efforts i don't think she knows the children well enough to be solely responsible for an extended period.

On the face of it - no. A week with someone they know very little and a virtual stranger, is far too long and has disaster written all over it.

If they want to come and visit and take the children for a couple of days out by themselves, but returning them at the end of each day - maybe.

Ok, the responses so far do reassure that I’m not crazy for having such a visceral reaction to the idea.

I do think that their father’s lack of involvement is a big part of the worry— but I don’t know how to express that to exMIL.

Honestly, I would probably be more comfortable with her coming alone since she she has a more appropriate grandparent relationship than he has parent relationship (and ideally doing day trips etc)

She became hugely colder (to me, although we have remained civil and she has warmed a bit in recent years) when I remarried and I know she doesn’t take confrontation well.

She became hugely colder (to me, although we have remained civil and she has warmed a bit in recent years) when I remarried and I know she doesn’t take confrontation well.

Being blunt, that's a her problem, not a you problem. She's your exMIL. You aren't obliged to keep in touch with her. You've done so because you felt it was the right thing to do, but she's lucky that you've made this effort. If she wants to be frosty, that's up to her, but if she has any sense then she should take the contact offered with good grace and remain civil.

I think it would be unfair to "punish" MIL for ex's flakiness. You've effectively moved the kids abroad and she's been consistent in maintaining contact with them and clearly wants a relationship, so I think you should consider allowing your MIL some dedicated time with them. The ex though is another matter.

Like a PP said could you facilitate a trip with MIL either in her own or with you?

I agree that she has made the effort to be an involved grandparent, and don’t think she should be “punished,” which is why I think I am having difficulty knowing how to talk about it with her.

I think she would be very taken aback by me suggesting he not come.

My own mother came and took them to the beach for a new days near us, I think I’d be ok with her doing that.

Ask her for more details. Where was she thinking of taking them. Tell her about the holiday your mum did with them and suggest something similar would be great if that’s what you’re comfortable with. You can be specific. If you’re comfortable with her doing a week in the UK with them then tell her that. If you’re not comfortable with her taking them out the country (to visit another European destination for example) - tell her that.

Do the children like MIL, and is she competent to look after them? If so I would let them, just view it as a bonus that they'll see their dad a bit even if he isn't very good. Going into teens it's good for their identity to at least be forming some memories with him if possible and safe to do so.

They do like her, she spent her life as an elementary school teacher and does well with talking to them and her time with them in the US was very well planned out and structured by her. From experience, she doesn’t do near as well with older teens so part of my guilt at saying no is I’m not sure how much longer the kids will want to go with her, and she’s the best connection to that side of their family they have.

I haven’t told them but my gut is they would want to go know— although my oldest called me several times a day while they were with her in the US (just to chat/for security probably)

I think I will see how she feels about an Airbnb on the beach nearby and being clear that DC are welcome to home at night etc if they choose to.

Will the kids enjoy that still at this age?
If she's got the money I wouldn't necessarily rule out a more exciting holiday, it could be a good chance for them to bond with her and have an exciting time and some new experiences. Also you may find if they're having more fun they don't miss home as much, whereas just a generic beech nearby they're more likely to get bored and want to come home.
Obviously you're best placed to know what they can handle though, I understand some children at that age would really struggle in a new environment, but if you think they'd be able to enjoy it then a proper holiday could be a great experience for them.

I think I'd feel the same as you tbh. I'd try to swallow my pride though and facilitate the meeting, because it sounds like they will be cared for. Also, I wouldn't want them growing up thinking I stood in the way of their relationship with half their family. I still wouldn't like it though!

Your ex sounds crappy and unmotivated but I do think it must have been hard for him and his family when his children moved to a different continent. Going from seeing your kids weekly to having to see them on screen is just such a change- facetime and calls are forced and weird and I know of many parents that struggle with it. Not defending him- he should have fought to keep them within reasonable parenting distance- but I think it's worth thinking about, because you might not want to put anything in the way of the kids spending time with their father when it's nigh-on impossible for them to have a normal relationship.

“If she's got the money I wouldn't necessarily rule out a more exciting holiday, it could be a good chance for them to bond with her and have an exciting time and some new experiences.”

In theory I agree and I think the kids would be ok, although the constant calling me on the summer weekends does worry me— the eldest is not usually clingy. My bigger worry is although exMiL is a stickler for rules and I can’t imagine her doing anything untoward, I hate the idea of handing over their passports 😬

“ I wouldn't want them growing up thinking I stood in the way of their relationship with half their family.”

One on the biggest reasons I have made big efforts to facilitate contact, although with the fact that knowing the other side is important for the healthy development of their identity.

“ Going from seeing your kids weekly to having to see them on screen is just such a change- facetime and calls are forced and weird and I know of many parents that struggle with it. Not defending him- he should have fought to keep them within reasonable parenting distance- but I think it's worth thinking about, because you might not want to put anything in the way of the kids spending time with their father when it's nigh-on impossible for them to have a normal relationship.”

He is hugely resentful of this and is the other thing that plays in my head. I don’t think it would be fair to DC to find out they had the opportunity to go on holiday with him and I says no.

However, I thought long and hard about the move, and I do not regret it. The children also have no interest in moving back/studying abroad (I asked them after this summer). Beyond the absolute financial necessity for me at the time as the sole provider, I had considerable concerns about his parenting. He used to gaslight me and guilt trip me constantly, and I saw him start to do that to the DC. They were too young to really remember that now and have a generally positive/neutral view of him, which I think is healthy for their own identity.

I think the exMiL does provide a buffer for a lot of that behaviour from him as she becomes the default primary caregiver when she’s around. I do worry that ultimately though, he will always be her son and she will prioritise him/his needs while travelling over the DC.

I would offer a compromise here. They can come and stay in your area, and take the kids out for the day nearby, or if you live somewhere that there aren’t many attractions, then maybe take them for a night or two to a local city. They might not be pleased, but the main point is to spend time with the kids, which they will have.

Ask DC what they want to do. Spend the summer with there friends in the UK or go on a family holiday with strangers…..

do they mean they wish to come to the UK and spend time with them? i would let ex-MIL do that, even offer to help her find air bnb etc for the sake of the children and her sake too. but i wouldn’t let them take kids to a different country without me being there for basic safety reasons

@ramdomhelmet i wouldn't be handing over passports. It's just not worth the risk to me.

I think dc are old enough to ask at 10+. DC generally do want to maintain a relationship even with a useless parent. It’s their choice to make and they may not decide until they are adults whether to keep the relationship up or not. I would let them go on holiday within your country (no passports handed over). I’d probably pick a city where there is stuff to do like museums if the grandparent likes organising excursions but only if dc want to and only for how long they want to go. A beach holiday would put a lot of pressure on everyone to entertain and interact with each other unless there were structured activities. Or they can stay nearby and see dc for day trips. My dc have an occasional relationship with their dad but they still choose as young adults to have one even though it’s not very satisfying.

100% this.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/international-parental-child-abduction
It happens. Makes the news sometimes. There was a high profile case in Australia a while back that was all over the news, where the dad took the two kids to his home country for a trip and never returned. The mom never saw them again.