She doesn't get it, am I wrong?

[ToughToWorkThrough]

I will try to be brief, but being brief will simplify some very complex nuances. Please keep that in mind. In England, if that matters.

We have 2 pre-teen kids. Through the challenges of modern life, modern parenting, my job requiring travel (to be a moderately high earner), usual relationship miscommunications and missteps, mortgage strain from interest hikes, cost of living strain, having moved to a new area and taking on higher mortgage debt for school catchments just before cost of living up-curve. My Wife pulled away from me enough to meet someone else. I don't know what went on, but I caught her in the lies of spending time with him when she was supposedly sleeping at a friends house.
Even after this point, I knew what was in store for us and her and the kids if we went through the divorce route. I tried to ask her to stay and work on it. I tried to protect my 3 loves from the pain I saw coming, by taking the pain on myself. I mean I would have to process the pain regardless, so I was willing to spend that time processing it with her. She has self proclaimed, "walk away wife syndrome". Believes we are not right for each other (Aspects of that are true, but who is really? And long term relationships are about touching base when you feel your wants and needs in life are changing)

Anyway, so we are now many months down the line. She could not move out, so I have had to. I am living with family about 30 minutes away from the marital home. I have always covered 2 3rds of all shared costs in the home. As I earn about 2x what she does after tax. She has overspent on her lifestyle, not massively, but has many things that she feels are necessities. While we were married, I didn't mind covering those extra things because she was my partner and I thought it made her happy. Now the reality is that when we split and try to each get a house in the same town, to stay close enough for the catchment schools and for me to be near to my kids. We will not have any money left. Not really. I have tried to explain to her that she needs to reign in her personal spends. She complains that I am being controlling and that she wont sacrifice these things. We will be going to mediation soon, there I hope she gets the reality check that she needs. All told, she spends about £450 on things over and above groceries and the real necessities in life. I always saved 100% of the safety nest egg. Holidays, car services, house insurance, car insurance, tv license. All those annual bills etc... That she will now have to save for on her own. Which will have to start coming out of that overspend budget from before. Because I will still have to save all of these things for myself. With my own house to run and save for.

So she didnt see that me paying for 2/3rds was basically like me covering child maintenance. So she insisted that we go to child maintenance way of being now. I worked out the statutory and then said I no longer pay 2/3rds of everything. I only pay half of the things My name is on. So Mortgage, utilities, council tax, broadband, etc... Then pay her the child maintenance amount. What she doesn't realise is that in this situation, I am paying about £250 more to her current living costs, than what she is likely to end up with after we split. because I wont be paying those halves. Yet she still complains that she doesn't have much left at the end of the month, but still hasn't twigged that many of her personal spends are above her means.

I want am trying to get her to see this and make these lifestyle adjustments in the relative safety of our current home, before it is sold. Where she has me to support her. Even though she wants out, even though she cheated and lied, I still want to make sure she is okay. I just dont think it is fair for me to help her be better than okay financially if it is at my expense. As someone who earns decent money, I need to be able to spoil my kids if that is at all possible. I wont see them often, so I need my time to be quality time. Plus, if I don't have a few hundred left over in a month to spoil my kids and try to look after myself, as the person with the high stress job that pays that much to help offset the extra stress. Then what would be the point of working that hard? It doesn't look like I would have much left over anyway. And with a post-separation cancer operation to deal with on top of all of this, I currently don't feel as though I can stick in my career, never mind advance it above this semi-hard ceiling I have already hit on my earning potential. She has some studies that she can complete and raise her earning potential by 20 - 50% if she tried at it. For me to raise by 20 - 50% I would have to take on much more risk and stress, either freelancing or trying to push into management positions. (Current stress already being high)

The last conversation we had, I was firm about what child maintenance covers. Food, clothes, housing etc... (even though I am actually covering 50% of the current utilities outside of the child maint amount, I agreed to the full calculated amount for the interim until we are through mediation). She balked at it, feeling I am being unreasonable, and then saying I am controlling when I bring up her personal spends and the new reality we find ourselves in. A reality she asked for, that I fought to protect her from. Now I have to fight to protect myself from it, otherwise I might come out of this as the chump who capitulated during mediation. Particularly if this other man is waiting in the wings, which I have no way of knowing.

So, with how lengthy that brief tour was, am I being unreasonable? Am I being insane. There is of course more to it on both sides. I have tried to keep it to the relevant bits. For income figures, she earns about 2k and I earn about 4k, both after tax.

You need to push ahead with divorce, separate financially, agree child arrangements and cms then it’s down to her to manage her money

It doesn’t sound like you are being unreasonable. Why do you need to post it here? Do you have no real life support?

Your wife could probably do with independent financial advice, maybe through mediation, to help her understand her new financial position, as she's unable/ unwilling to take advice from you.

I think mediation will really help you here.

The important thing to remember is that you are separating, so you don’t control one another’s lives. In a divorce process, the idea is both parties get their ‘needs’ met and, if there isn’t enough money to go around, both have to curtail ‘wants’.

If it has been a long marriage, the baseline is you both come out of it roughly equal, so should both enjoy roughly the same amount of free money after necessities for you both and your children.

But you need to remain dispassionate. Add up the income and expenses, see how much is left after the children are fed and clothed, and divide this equally. Don’t get into discussions about restaurants vs yoga (for example).

There are, of course, tons of nuances around this and it is, ultimately, a negotiation. Let the mediator guide you over this.

Do you understand the point of Mumsnet? It's all about collective wisdom. Shitty putdowns are toxic and unhelpful.

Well that would basically apply to every Mumsnet post.

Her spending is not your problem.

Work out what you think is fair. Check with a solicitor what the law requires. Then negotiate from there.

She is not going to see your point of view and you cannot make her.

Imo courts don’t look to ensure both parties have the sane spare money

they look to ensure adequate housing provision and a fair share of assets - spousal is not given to equalise incomes or to ensure same left over spend. If op Ed wants sane money she needs to up her income

Do you ask this question of every poster? Because logically you could! Surely the whole purpose of MN is to get the opinions of a wide and diverse group of people, beyond your own close circle.

I don’t think that the law facilitates them having “equal free money after necessities”. She wants out, she RAB’s half what he does - she’s not going to have an equal amount of free money and would be unreasonable to expect to.

Perhaps the affair partner can pony up?

OP you are being more than reasonable. Your ex sounds spoilt and entitled. She going to have to learn to stand on her own two feet the hard way.

Doesn’t matter if op has affair partner or not

he won’t be expected to pay bills and cms and prop up ex finances- she’ll have to live within her means or increase earnings

You have to separate - that is you can no longer tell her what to do or try to make things better for her.
Go to mediation and sort out an equitable sharing of assets, and time that the children see you both.
Then she has to live within her means or bear the consequences. She has to be a grown up. And you can't control how she does that - it's her problem. You just have to care for your children.

She is manipulating you and being financially abusive.

Get your name removed from all the bills like broadband or everything else that you are no longer benefitting from and let her work it out for herself. It is not your job to be her financial tutor, she will not get it until she is forced to. Pay your half of the mortgage but push for a quick sale, and pay whatever CMS says you should for your children. Nothing else. You need to get your own new home sorted as soon as possible for your dc.

You can only control your own spending, especially now, so stop trying to police hers.
The only other way you might be being unreasonable is thinking about how she could increase her earnings. Are you parenting enough to make this possible? Thinking about school drop offs and pick ups, school holidays, and the timing and frequency of your work trips.
You're doing more than your fair share financially, but are you doing enough consistent everyday parenting for your ex to focus on her career if she wants to?
Ultimately, you need to focus on the life you'll build with your kids now.

Keep your beak out of her spending, it isn’t your business. “Protect”? She isn’t a little girl.

Like everyone else on Mumsnet? Why shouldn’t he?
He’s just looking for a female perspective to see if he’s being fair.

Thanks to all that responded. Yes, I was simply looking for people that have been through similar things on both sides of the fence.

To answer a few questions without direct quotes on those questions.
Right now I am a bit far away to help with the school drop offs and pick ups. When we were together, I worked my away from home time to match her work schedule as best as I could and did the drop offs and pick ups on the days I was home.

Yes I need to keep my beak out of her spends. Yes I need to not protect her from her own consequences. Yes she needs to stand on her own two feet. But she is still the mother of my children and will be the primary household that they live in for the time being. I need her to be able to manage her finances well for the wellbeing of my kids, both financially and emotionally.

Yes she is manipulating me. Using lines like, "why wouldn't you want to care for the mother of your kids".

As far as consistent parenting for her to focus on her career. That will increase again once we are settled after the divorce. Right now I cannot easily go around to the house. There are a lot of emotional triggers that I don't care to go into for the purposes of this post. But it is a lot. I was driving up and taking the kids to extra curriculars in the evenings. When the kids had end of school year things this last month, I was there for every one of them and mostly asked to take them alone so I could have them but also give her a break. It is not perfect, but it is very cramped at my mother's house and even having them here every second weekend is difficult enough that I have bought a tent to take them camping and am considering taking them to B&Bs if the weather is not good. So right now she is definitely taking the brunt of the parenting side of it. Not what I want at all, because I really get along well with my kids and feel like this is impacting that, the longer it lasts.

I am looking into mediation. Any suggestions or recommendations? Any "steer clear of" recommendations too?

You need to take a huge step back OP. She will eventually realise she is spending above her means because one day when the divorce is over and she is independent it will be a choice between a mortgage payment & whatever her extras are.

You cannot possibly believe she is a bad parent if you’re willing to leave your children in her care 90% of the time, so you have to trust that a good mother WILL make the right choice when it comes down to it. For right now she doesn’t have to give anything up because she has the financial buffer you provide, once that is gone, she had to make that choice and she will. She doesn’t have to start sacrificing now because it’s not an issue now.

I honestly cannot read all of what you have written because a lot of it is irrelevant.

You have moved out of the family home and are separated. At a minimum you should pay child support and your ex should pay all the bills associated with living in the family home, mortgage and living costs. She can use her own income, child support and Universal credit. Now it may be reasonable for you to contribute to mortgage at 50%. If you are not paying rent then do this.

Thats it. Take all household bills out of your name, your don’t need her agreement for this. Tell the providers you have moved out and you can give her name if you want.

As others have said her lifestyle and spending choices are her own. You have no need to get involved or to subsidise her. If she wants interim support she will need to go to court over it. But imo child support plus half the mortgage is more than enough.

Focus on accepting the marriage is over and you must live separate lives whilst co parenting. Uninvolve yourself from her life.

There are two main types of mediator. Specially qualified Lawyers and Charity based ones. The second tends to be cheaper.
I think the question I would ask of any before engaging is "under what circumstances would they decide mediation wasn't going to work and what would they do then?"
Your Solicitor should be able to give recommendations in your area.

And as someone whose mediation broke down - the issue was one party not being willing to negotiate or really listen to the other.

Assuming you are in the UK then the legal distribution of assets in my opinion is pretty fair. Although one party may be in a stronger position to accumulate wealth in the future.

By all means try mediation but you ll know by the 2nd or 3rd session if it's worthwhile. Then apply for a divorce, slowly but surely dismantle your joint finances and be there for your kids.

TBH, stop worrying about your soon to be ex. Stop trying to play the hero. Let her sink or swim. It's not your problem. Pay the calculated maintenance, then let her crack on.

No-one can really say if you are being unreasonable or she is, based on a few short paras.

First off, I would take a really good hard look at whether you are doing your fair share of parenting. It’s not helping out, which implies it’s her responsibility and you do a bit where you can. It’s half your responsibility and half hers. You say you are not currently having the children to stay over and also your work doesn’t enable you to do a regular set pattern of 50% of daytime and nighttime care, right? If so this is a very big deal and very significantly impacts her earning potential. You will get nowhere trying to negotiate on money on your terms if you are leaving the grunt work to her. Make it absolutely clear from the outset that you want 50/50. Much fairer. If that means you have to take a different job, or arrange childcare for the children whilst you are working or away, then so be it.

I’m obviously playing devil’s advocate here but genuinely, I’d encourage you to take a big step away from trying to manage her financial affairs.

You need to make sure there are absolutely no defaults on joint accounts such as mortgages and utilities. After that she can do as she pleases. But make it fair first, by taking on half the practical care for the children, so she can up her earnings and also advance her career to provide for your joint kids. You can do no more than that.