Legal advise on consent order

[Catsruledogsdroolokay]

My STBXH and I have used mediation to come to a (complicated!) financial arrangement

He is a very high earner. It involves a 50/50 split of assets but then both a monthly and annual maintenance payment (child/maintenance - maybe global?)

It has been stressful and he has been very nasty at times. I know it is a good, fair deal, better than one a solicitor could negotiate or a judge would give. He had an affair and I think the guilt is why he proposed it. He wants to be able to tell his friends and kids that he’s a good guy. But he is constantly threatening to withdraw it if I question anything and has given very limited asset disclosure (3 months rather than 12)
It is hard to know what is just control and what is deceit…..

But all that aside, I am happy with the mediated agreement and happy to proceed to having a consent order being written up
We have agreed to use the mediation company’s solicitors service to get it drawn up

The thing is, when I said I wanted to get independent legal advice once the consent order had been drawn up he absolutely flipped.
He is insisting that I do not need it. And if I get it then it will all go in the bin and we will do everything through solicitors, or worse, a judge.

I do NOT want to rehash the order
I am happy with it
I’m just concerned that something gets lots in translation and how will I know that it’s what I think it is unless someone walks me through it?

If I get advice do I have to tell him?
Plus don’t we both have to prove to a judge that we’ve done that anyway?

What have other people done in similar situations?

I’d say you don't need to ask his permission to get legal advice. Just do it. I’d also be very concerned that it will be hard to get the extra payments out of him and would definitely definitely want solicitors advice on that. What happens if he quits his job and goes back to court to amend the order? It’s a big red flag that he’s so adamant that you shouldn’t see a solicitor.

Why even tell him? A forensic accountant might be worth an investment.

Get the legal advice and don’t tell him in future.

Is your ex self employed or in a profession where he can switch to self employment ?

If so you need to be wary as self employment provides lots of ways to rearrange income so that he can minimise his support payments. Is he likely to do the classic abuser move of quitting work and living off assets ? If he does that then his child maintenance liability would become zero because child maintenance is based on income not assets.

Also when you see your legal expert ask what the conditions are for him to renegotiate the terms of child maintenance and spousal support. Pretty sure I read that they can be renegotiated after 12 months. In 12 months time you could end up with zero spousal and just CMS child maintenance (check on an online calculator how much this would be for your info)

You don't have to tell him you're taking advice. You're entitled to (and should), so in your position I would just do so quietly - buy some time if you need to, if he starts putting pressure on to sign the consent order before you've taken advice. Make up some excuse about not having had time to go through it yet.

If he starts pressuring you to sign quickly, then on top of the lack of disclosure of 12 months' payslips and bank statements, I'd think that was indicative of something to hide. But you have to weigh that against your ability to pay for the legal advice that might help you get to the bottom of whatever he might be hiding (if he is).

Any maintenance agreement can revert back to standard CMS rate a year after the financial settlement. The promise of maintenance is no substitute for a fair share of the marital assets. Lawyer up. He's ripping you off.

In response to @SonicTheHodgeheg, it's correct that 12 months after a court order which includes child maintenance is made, the paying party can apply to vary it (if their income has gone down, or if they have been able to manipulate it to appear to have gone down).

I’ve read stories on here where the ex moves assets into the names of their parents in an attempt to keep it out of negotiations. If he’s wealthy then it may be worth investing in a forensic accountant to see how much he’s hiding.

If he’s nasty and likely to pull tricks later then it may be worth going for more assets and less spousal maintenance because there’s a risk that he won’t pay it in 12 months time or will keep on taking you to court in an attempt to financially ruin you with legal fees. Therefore get legal advice.

Any maintenance agreement at this stage can be reopened at a later date. But if his income is complicated and involves any overseas income I would advise to be incredibly cautious

Slow down. What about his pension? Don't ignore the value of this. It can be the greatest asset of all. And from your post, I see there's no mention of it. Why is that?

I would say you need it as a lump sum. His circumstances could change and then he will say he can't afford it. Or alternatively he knows he is getting a massive pay rise or bonus soon and doesn't want to share it. Get the 50.50 and then used CMS for the children's payments then it's all fair and can't be changed easily

Cms can be negotiator a year. Global maintenance means it’s a combo of cms and spousal - and is not changed unless a court orders variation. If cms goes down then spousal goes up

questions to ask yourself: are you confident you’ve had good disclosure of assets? Are pensions and everything else in there?
Are you aware of what assets you had while in the marriage or was it very much separate? If the former you should have some confidence that nothing material is missing.

you should get legsl
advise anyway and a judge will most likely want to know this is happened before signing off the order

personally I think he’s mad but if I’m he’s happy with it and you are and mediator thinks it fair then go ahead

I suppose the thing you have to consider as well is that it can take longer and cost more in legal fees in order to get a 'better' settlement. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, and all that. And you're happy with the settlement, so... there's that.
About the pensions, did you have a court ordered report carried out by a pensions expert (I would only do this if one or both of you have significant pensions)?

His pension is worth 4 times mine
We are waiting on a pension actuary report to see how it should be split
We are working on the basis of equalising it
At our last mediation meeting, in the last few minutes, he made a casual mention that as he was a high earner he can only save £10K a yr before having to pay tax so it wouldn’t be fair to split things 50/50
I said let’s just wait for the report then we can discuss it

Cos he’s such a high earner, is there any chance I would get more than 50% of his pension?

My h didn't want to use solicitors either. I didn't trust him. Spent £10k on a solicitor but I'd have lost a lot more.

Never trust someone you want to divorce.

I had a fairly good handle on our finances pre affair discovery so my gut says he isn’t hiding anything massive

He is either
a) trying to hide evidence of the affair (why lord only knows)
b) trying to hide evidence he’s been to a solicitor
c) just being a dick

The massive red flag is the ‘don’t get legal advice’ stance he is taking
It literally makes no sense to me

Even if he gave me 100% of the assets (which no judge would agree to) it wouldn’t even come close to the sum of the maintenance payments until the kids are 20
It’s a fair deal that compensates me for the step back in my career to support his and it allows us both to bring the kids up in similar ‘comfort’

He could not become self employed
I think it is likely that he may abandon the kids and move to America for work if it doesn’t work out with his AP

Would the global maintenance protect me from him reassessing CM after a year?

There’s a thread on here where someone in the UK is trying to get CM out of her ex who is working in the US. (I think international enforcement by REMO?) After many months, she’s not got anything and she’s told the authorities which company he works for.

CM payments are normally until age 18 or when
A-level equivalent qualifications are completed. He might be more amenable to giving the children money after that point rather than you since uni can be expensive (you mentioned age 20 as the cut off)

Talk to your legal advisor about the risks of him going abroad, taking you back to court to get out of your agreement and only pay CMS amount etc

I think getting maintenance out of someone who has moved to America can be very difficult.

With the pensions, if they are equalised the only relevant factors (I think) is the size of each of your pensions and if there is an age difference. It’s only worked out on the size of the ‘pot’ but not on future income or contributions.

His comment about savings is an odd one. Presumably he could put a large chunk into his pension to avoid additional tax.

Yes global maintenance would protect you from child maintenance reassessment - that’s the point of it.

it won’t protect you from

job losses or loss of income or any material change which would allow him to seek a variation to the order. This is why personally I wouldn’t like it, especially if over many years as people’s circumstances can change. What if he will ill and couldn’t work for example….

How high an earner is he?

no one can say what you’d get if it went to court especially on the limited info here

but unlikely to get
high % of liquid assets and more than 50% pension and global maintenance , eg might get higher than 59% of assets but no spousal, or get spousal but only say 30% of pension. ( obvs numbers are just examples)

So you need to understand your priorities and go from
there - plus of course potential long drawn out and very costly battle to get it to court

My priorities are the kids
That’s why I did mediation
But it feels like he is bullying me
The mediator has done a great job of helping us meet in the middle but what’s the point of writing up action points of what we’ve agreed if he then just says ‘I’m not doing it’ once we’re out of the meeting?

And then to say ‘don’t get legal advice’ is just a massive red flag

I am beginning to resign myself to the fact that we’ll be doing this through the courts - something I desperately wanted to avoid for the children.

P.S high earner = over 300K

I meant your priorities in terms of

cash/equity now vs pension in the future vs spousal maintenance ( which can always be revised)

youll end up having to negotiate and trade one of these in all likelihood so you need to think what you want/need.

cash now is more certain
pension gives some future protection
spousal gives you income but can be varied / unpredictable and you are reliant on him keep working or his circumstances not materially changes. If they do you are buggered potentially

Your case sounds similar to a friend of mine

obvs I don’t know the value of your assets / length of marriage or ages of children but hers went to court

she worked 3 days earning 40k ( full time capacity measured at 70
children aged 9 and 11
married 12 years

ex earned 300k

She was awarded 60% equity ( about 360k), 20% pension and global maintenance of 1800 pr month till kids either finished a levels or uni ( he had agreed to this and a judge said it was awarded on this basis otherwise might not have rubber stamped it)

that was 5 years ago - subsequently he’s dropped his maintenance…

obvs this is just an illustration as it will be completely dependent on the £ available to split and your own circumstances

but as said upthread it’s unlikely ( if enough equity/liquid investments) you’d get the equity and more than 50% of pension and large global maintenance- you you need to think what you’d trade off potentially

whats your income ?

He is pulling a fast one. You do not need his permission for anything anymore. You need to put yourself first, just as he is doing. He is not looking out for you, he is trying to shaft you. Do not allow this. He has far more to lose which is why he is bullying and abusing you.

My ex was so shocked the first time I stood up to him after we separated. He thought he could walk all over me as usual. He got nastier and more obstructive as he lost control of me, but in the end, he ended up the loser.

Thanks for that info

Gave up career (so we could move for his of course!), didn’t work for 2 yrs, then took a PT job for last 8 years, but since separation I have gone FT and earn 45K

How has he managed to drop the maintenance?
Because he earns less now?