Advice please re financial settlement

[OnACloud]

Hi, I’m looking for advice on fair and sensible financial settlements. I know that eventually we will need legal input but to keep costs down I’d like us to be able to agree as much as we can between us.

Background: married 28 years, 2 children both young adults but living at home rent free (students). Not dependent in legal terms but we agreed jointly (and still do agree) that we will support them through their education).

DH’s earning and earning potential is much higher than mine (currently about 3 times higher but has been 10 times in the past). Partly this is due to skills, education etc but partly because I was a stay at home mum and also followed him around the country while he pursued his career (I did this willingly). Also, as children got older I worked and still do work part time to allow me to be more present and supportive at home (one child with mild additional needs). I would struggle to get a mortgage, where as he wouldn’t.

Pensions: DH’s is significantly better than mine.

House: when we sell we will have about £375 equity. The children have chosen to live with me so I will want a house adequate for this.

DH feels responsible and guilty about the marriage breakdown (he was unfaithful) and says I can have whatever I need for a financially stable future but I’m aware that that is probably irrelevant in the eyes of the law.

I don’t want to take the p*{! but I do want to be sensible about my future.

My quiesrion is, What would a court deem to be reasonable in this situation? If I said I wanted the house and half his pension he would agree but I know this is not practical or fair.

Any knowledgable advice much appreciated.

50:50 of all assets

50/50 is practical and fair OP and it’s not taking the piss at all. You’ve had a long marriage and supported him and your children during it and sacrificed any career path to do this. You’ve contributed jointly in this manner. Courts will take into consideration any quality of life enjoyed by both parties during the marriage. If he is happy to do this and avoid legal fees then absolutely take that option. You will be disadvantaging yourself and your children who will be living with you and currently financially dependent on you both if you don’t!

Taking 100% of house and half his pension is not fair. Courts don’t apportion blame to settlement. Based on your op the courts would be looking to 50:50 or v near that although may trade some equity for pension etc

you would be expected to work full and to be frank you are working part time through doing choice , there is no reason why you can’t work full time.

your adult children would be discounted for needs/settlement and housing by a court

50:50 is fair

I would say 50:50 as a minimum actually. You are equal partners yet he will still be benefiting from your support in previous years after you separate. I would get a good solicitor and I’d ask them what they thought of 50:50 and maybe a bit extra for you; a lump sum you can pile into your pension or similar. Maybe a years worth of difference in your income and your husbands. Gives you a slight cushion. I suppose I think this because 50:50 of assets isn’t really 50:50 for you is it; It means your years of support aren’t much accounted for? Don’t know if that makes sense just my thoughts! Best of luck. I would get a solicitor.

A court would deem 50/50 reasonable due to the fact you don’t have any dependent children. The fact they want to live with you is pretty much irrelevant in the eyes of the law as they are adults and therefore neither parent technically has responsibility to house them. You can try and negotiate a bit more with your husband privately if you both agree you want the children to continue to live with you.

A judge would be very unlikely to sign off an agreement where you get the whole house and his pension as this would be grossly unfair. I think you’re looking at a maximum of £215k and half his pension really.

@babyproblems if op ex pension is split 50:50 via pso then op is equalised

50:50 pensions and other non-house assets.

Adult children are a complicating factor - CMS doesn't apply, so you will need to agree if XDH will pay maintenance and if so how much/who to (them direct vs you) and for how long.

How much will you need to buy a house suitable for you and the children to live in? If you had half the house equity and needed a mortgage would that leave you and the children with a lifestyle that is reasonable?

No, 50:50 isn't fair. He's going to earn more for the rest of his life because you made sacrifices for the family. How much is that worth?

It’s not fair that op chooses to work part time and expects husband to fund that

@olderbutwiser op would need ex to agree to factor in children into housing needs, as a court would not

Another one here who thinks 50/50 is fair and reasonable.

50/50 is fair. Be honest - you didn’t selflessly sacrifice your career. At some point over the past 20 ish years you could have got a full time job if you wanted one.

Thanks for the responses. Just to be clear, I currently work part time but am more than prepared to work full time and will do so when I’m financially independent (I sometimes do anyway as I can do overtime).

I know that the children are no longer legally dependant but H and I both agree that for the time being we will support them.

I suppose one thing I’m trying to work out is, is it best for me to have a larger amount of equity to set myself up and say goodbye to his pension (I don’t want spousal maintenance) or to split the equity more evenly and take a share of his pension for the future. His pension is currently worth 20x mine annually and that is largely due to the decision we made as a couple for me to be a stay at home mum and then a part time worker as they grew up (we never had any child care). I’m trying to consider what is sensible and fair. HIS suggestion is that I have the house and half of his pension. This is not an option that I would ever agree to as it’s not fair but suggestions like that are making it hard to come up with a plan that’s rational and I really don’t want to have to employ a mediator if we can help it..

If he’s offering you the whole house and half his pension stop arguing and get it sorted asap before he changes his mind!

It depends on your age but imo you’d be better to take less equity and downsize and get pso

What’s stopping you getting full time job now op ? Then you’d have better mortgage capacity

Because while he is getting on with his new life of too much drinking and dating sites I’m putting in many hours decluttering, decorating and sorting the garden to increase our sales potentials. The kids and I are also coming to terms with the fact that their dad has been lying to and cheating on us all and that we have to sell our home. I don’t say it like that to be flippant, I’m just trying to be sensible about what I can take on. I have only just stopped being a massive emotional support to H (and the only reason I have given up for now is because he won’t help himself).
I’m having an operation next month which I need to recover from so for now I’m taking a day at a time.
I have actually just found out that the overtime I do will count towards a mortgage so it’s possible anyway. But even so, it’s still nowhere near a match for H’s salary.

It’s so hard though because I don’t think he’s of rational mind. He’s got serious guilt and it’s affected his mental health so I don’t want to take advantage.

It’s a very long marriage with a huge discrepancy in earnings and pensions. 50/50 is purely the starting point. Very similar to my situation, ex earned 4 times what I did with bonuses and had 5 very valuable pensions. I was awarded 90% equity and shares in 3 of his pensions, giving us equality of income in retirement. I’m now 63 and looking to retire soon and my pension pot is sitting at £525,000 as of today so will be fine. I also bought a lovely 2 bed cottage mortgage free. My sons were 25 and 22 and had left home but my younger son was a student and it was deemed that he needed a home whilst studying. Agree that you’ll probably be expected to maximise your income and work full time if possible.

Thanks Hannah, did you get that agreed by a court to protect both of you from future claims?

H was uncooperative throughout so we had to go to court. It was agreed at FDR when the judge advises what he thinks the outcome will be should the case go to final hearing. I had previously asked for 75% equity and a pension share giving us equality of income (actuary’s report was required as 3 of the pensions were defined benefit, they’re very valuable)! Judge was very firm in that I needed a mortgage free home, H’s income allowed him to get a mortgage.

That’s really interesting, thanks for sharing.

I was asking as it won’t really effect your settlement because either ex will agree to a proposal or if it went to court settlement would take account if your full time wage, and it would help you gain control and independence

imo it would be absolute unfair to take 100% of equity and 50% equity especially when h not thinking clearly.

what’s his income ?

How much does he earn? What I would ask for in this situation would depend on that.

Depends on the worth of his pension, and of yours
You mention the house equity value, but pension values could be far higher

How much would a decent 3 bedroom house for you and the kids be?

How are you going to split covering supporting them for the remainder of their student life? (& how long is that?)