Is this fair?

[AnotherDayAnotherDoll]

Stbxh: £45k. Public sector pension of 25 years. Has and could earn quite a bit more. Full time. Never given up work for kids. Doesn't pay mortgage. MH problems.

Me: £90k. Sometimes less. Not sure I could earn much more. Full time. Went back to work after 3 months maternity. Pay all mortgage and bills. Tiny tiny pension.

House: 300k equity. All put in by me 3 years ago after sale of flat I inherited before I met him.

Kids: older child with SEN and learning difficulties. Suite of interventions.

What I want is to stay in the family home with kids to ensure stability. I will have them 70/30 across the year.

I'm going to suggest 100k to H and i get to stay in house. I won't touch his pension or ask for CMS. 100k lump sump & no ongoing financial links. 100k to him plus his salary could afford a 3 bed flat.

What do you think? Am I being reasonable?

Too reasonable. He needs to pay CMS, OP. That isn't your money, it's for your children.

How much is his pension worth?

The non payment of CMS isn’t enforceable so he would be advised not to go with this offer. After a year you could claim CMS and he would have to pay it. Has his pension been valued?

You need a proper valuation for his pension. 25 years of public sector pension may be worth as much as your house equity. Don’t make any decisions until you know that.

I agree to reasonably, you don’t know what the future holds so keep hold of your assets the house is yours you paid for it, and you need it for the children, and I agree with PP you need the cms if you don’t need it for day to day life then invest it for the children’s future. You say you have little pension you need to keep an eye on that and think of the future not now.

i can see you want to help set him up with property, so ok a lump sum but in exchange for some pension, think of it as you’ve paid for the house over the years so he gets a sum, he’s paid into the pension - so you get a sum

I guess my thinking of CMS was if he pays CMS his mortgage potential decreases right? - so then he could ask for bigger chunk of equity which I can't afford/won't get.

I can see what you're all saying about future rather than right now. I guess my instinct is to find a way to keep as much as the same as poss for DS.

I also don't want to engage/risk in long term negotiation on CMS - and risk him arguing for 50% in order not pay it. I'm desperate for a clean break. I want him to have no power over me

It’s a good deal for him because of his pension.

he is likely to be awarded higher share of equity than the 100k based on his lower earnings and ability to mortgage. Yours is greater

however, you must get his pension valued as this could make a very material difference.

you need to be thinking of 50:50 or near to it inc equity and pensions.

You can’t trade equity/pension for cms

I thought @millymollymoomoo that if his large public sector pension is left alone that would might mitigate the 50k gap between 5050 for the equity.

does it make no difference that his earnign potential is much more AND he didn't put in any equity AND he won't have the kids majority of time?

understand the point about CMS though.

How long ago were you married?
You wanting to treat £300k of equity as yours not his suggests that you weren't married long ago.

5 years @lljkk

I don't see it as mine - hence why I'm saying we split it with him taking a third. He doesn't see his pension as mine and I don't want it. He also hasn't used any his salary towards the mortgage.

I just want to be left to live in the family home caring for our kids. i don't want anything from him. And i'm hoping that 100k and to not spend anything on solicitors is fair enough.

The fact he paid less towards mortgage equity - irrelevant

if he works full time he’ll be added in his earnings. When people are told to maximise it generally means going back to work or increasing to full time vs part time.

his pension needs valuing and can be used in negotiations/trade offs. We can’t assess that here

if he has the children 40% if time then your housing needs will likely be deemed equal

So it’s a relatively short marriage which might bring in some leverage towards you

i would give him more if i could afford to and stay in the family home. i really hope he will see it as good deal in sense his disabled kid will get to stay in same home/same school/same care - and i will manage it all (as I do now) and he will get 100k in the bank and be able to do just do weekends.

i will get it valued when he agrees. i just know he's fully signed up to a very generous public sector pension scheme in senior management roles for 25 years and my pension is about £2.50. I think I'm pretty safe to presume it will be more or equal to the equity amount - though I did see a person on another divorce thread saying it's not a £1 for £1 equal thing between equity and pension.

You need it valued before he can agree

and it’s not £1 :£1

if it’s defined benefit that will need proper valuation not guesses

For a very finger in the air guess, if his public sector pension is eg a local government one it will accrue at 1/49 per year. Assuming £45,000 for 25 years at that rate is an index linked annual pension of £22,959. A pretty conservative valuation of this would be the same way it is assessed for tax purposes, which is 20 times annual pension, which is £459k. So even adjusting for the fact he can’t access it for some time it is likely to be worth more than your house equity

posie… has this right

you need to work out the current value of his pension in today’s dollars. If he hasn’t vested yet or he is still contributing those contributions probably won’t count towards the valuation, it will just be what is there so far. The same for yours. Plus any other major assets like cars, savings accounts, valuable items. That then gets used in the calculation for splitting assets.

people always focus just on the house and forget everything else needs to be valued too. If he has a good pension this will make your negotiations go much more smoothly.

splitting his pension is an option if he wants to release more immediate liquidity, but it is expensive and complicated so it’s really not the best path.

as other people mentioned, you can’t actually permanently waive child maintenance so it is a non-starter.

That is so helpful @PosiePerkinPootleFlump thank you! I know it's just a guess but even having a rough idea. Thank you.

I have only started building a pension and use pensionbee and it says at pension age I will have a pension worth £50k. So enough to last for 2 years of retirement at a similar yearly payment!

I guess it's a legitimate negotiation - 100k and I'll leave his pension well alone - but he may not be happy with it. He has never been bothered about owning his own home and v disinterested in financial stuff in general. If there was no bitterness he would jump at 100k lump sum and to not have to deal with our family home/kids routine - but he is bitter and horribly angry and I fear will prioritise pride over keeping our kids in their home.

We have 2 x cars (both in my name) so there is that to consider but nothing else of any value. In fact a little bit of my credit card debt. But nothing else to factor in sadly. We used to have savings but all gone.

A poster on another thread said due to time till retirement still being quite long they were advised to value pension at 50% in present value terms. No idea if this advice is accurate and obviously very individual. The reasonableness or not of the £100K offer really hinges on the present value of his pension. I don't think anyone can really say if its fair or not with such a big issue still unknown.

You have one child who is his biologically ?
You describe the child as "older" but you were only married 5 years?
Did you rent together for a long period before you bought FMH?

The children are biologically his. The older one is only 5.

I inherited a flat some years ag (no mortgage). H moved in within 6 months of meeting and we both lived there with no mortgage or rent for a short-period.

Then we got married/pregnant/bought the family home (from the sale of the flat) in quick succession.

Things got v tough after babies appeared.