Holiday advice AIBU?

[Newdawnfreedom]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for external opinions about summer holidays post separation. Long post - sorry!

Context - I've been separated for over 2.5 years. It was a toxic and controlling relationship but I have done a lot to heal and maintain a civil relationship to reduce conflict for the kids sake.
He hired a live in au pair after I left and started a relationship with her soon afterwards. That was very painful for me initially but I learned to focus on my own life and move on. I've learned to suck a lot of stuff up and say nothing. He's a classic narcissistic so I use yellow rock and that has served me well.

We have a 50/50 arrangement which I'm not really happy about but the kids love being with him and the advice I received was to stay out of court.

We've both been on holidays with the boys a couple of times and have provided travel consent letters to facilitate this. Shortly after the split I wrote to him via email to try and agree terms for this and other arrangements but he refused to commit to anything in writing saying it was ridiculous. I asked that we both afford each other around a week in the summer - somewhere in Europe and a few long weekends etc all to be agreed in advance of booking. This is still my preference and I think it's reasonable.

I recently discovered that he has told the kids he's taking them to Thailand for 2+ weeks in autumn. This is a trip we had planned as a family but never got around to it so I know it is designed to hurt/trigger me.

I don't care so much about the symbolism of it anymore but I do worry that it's just too much. My youngest is 8 and struggled a bit on the other holidays- he had an accident in a swimming pool on the first one that really frightened him. His dad did get him out quickly and I accept that these things do happen...but the thought of them being so far away for a longer period just doesn't sit well with me.

My ex is a chronic weed smoker and will be smoking on holidays for sure
His new partner is much younger and I believe their relationship can be volatile at times. She's also the kids minder and I do think she's nice to them but don't think she's massively invested in their care and wellbeing

So do I carry on sucking it up and let them go for the sake of keeping things civil? Or is my gut feeling right- it's too much and I need to put a boundary down.

I will do it all as nicely as possible and try to persuade rather than dictate etc. but I know from past experience that he will not back down easily.

Any advice is much appreciated

As I read over this it's obvious to me that I still am hurt and upset at the thought of him taking them on our dream family holiday with his new partner. If it's just that then I need to suck it up and let everyone get on with their lives.
But I also feel like Thailand for 2+ weeks is very different from a week in Spain etc.

I have gotten much better at trusting my gut on things but here I'm unsure if I'm being petty or if there's a genuine safety concern that requires a battle.

2 weeks to Thailand is perfectly reasonable
a court would deem
this perfectly acceptable

you can’t argue lack of care if he has them 50:50 and you’re fine with 1 week in europe- unless you are going to stop that which from your post does not sound in your children’s best interests.

honestly, I think you are being unreasonable but can understand you don’t like being away from Your children. They will have a fab time

I agree with @millymollymoomoo I think if you went to court on this matter, the court would probably go in his favour based. A two week holiday is pretty usual.

Why do you assume he's booked a holiday to Thailand to "trigger" you? If it's somewhere he has long wanted to go, surely the most likely explanation is that he still wants to go and has booked the holiday now he can afford it?

I don't think this would go your way if you went to court. Bow out and behave with dignity.

Thank you for the replies. That's really helpful. I wasn't planning on going to court over this but it's good to know how it would play out.

I can see that there is still a lot of emotiveness at play for me here.

I assumed he did this to trigger me because I know him well and am very familiar with his tactics unfortunately.

But I take the point that it's really up to me how I react and what I let bother me.
I've done really well on practicing radical acceptance to get this far and will continue with that approach.

I'll just need to figure out how to manage my anxiety for the 2 weeks they are away. Perhaps I'll book a holiday myself

I think you need to let it go. My friend would tell you her ex visits certain places to trigger her too. He doesn't, he goes because he wants to go and couldn't give a stuff about what she's up to.

She's convinced he's obsessed with upsetting her and retaining some control but he's just not. She's the one that's obsessed but she's so hurt that she can't see it. Therapy is helping a little, maybe it would help you?

Was he supposed to give up the idea of ever going to Thailand with his family because you split?

Thanks. I'm aware that I'm coming across as paranoid and maybe even petty. But honestly that's not the case. Those who have been subjected to narcissistic abuse will understand.

I did extensive therapy and it really helped. I want my kids to have a strong relationship with their Dad and I know that keeping a civil relationship and reducing conflict is really important.

I admitted that it's hurtful as it was always our big family dream but I fully accept that I need to get over that part.

The other reasons Thailand was an issue for me is the distance and the likelihood he will be smoking strong weed.

I sought feedback to help me separate my emotional response from the rational response and I'm fully prepared to take it on board.

I think your coping incredibly well.
Keep doing what your doing.
Your right to be concerned about the weed use but eventually your children will understand and make their own views about his behaviour.
One day you and your children can go to Thailand.

If he is a chronic weed smoker, no way in hell would I let him go. At this minute, marijuana use in Thailand is legal. However, let me do a little scaremongering.

1). He will want to be totally stoned as much as possible. In charge of your children. That’s a no from me.

2). The law may well be changed by the time they get there. He may decide to try to chance his luck and, if he gets caught, what happens to your children? That’s a no from me.

https://www.euronews.com/travel/2024/05/09/is-weed-still-legal-in-thailand-heres-what-tourists-need-to-know-as-government-u-turnsi

Sorry, updating my post.

No way in hell would I let THE CHILDREN go.

If he goes out and gets into trouble re his smoking weed, would his travel insurance cover you to fly out to retrieve your children?

Nope, nada, no way.

It doesn't matter if you're happy with the trip or not: it doesn't sound like a battle you will win. He's unlikely to agree a fortnight holiday is too much and if you took it to court they would agree.

"Nope, nada, no way."

Unfortunately it doesn't sound like she has that option.

Yeah there's simply no point in fighting it in that case. My gut says absolutely not and no way too but if I'm not going to succeed in stopping him then I'd better save my energy.

I'll try talking to him to see if he'd consider waiting a year or two or if not then keeping the trip on the shorter side.

Thanks for the advice and kind words

To those saying no way - the point is he had them 50:50 already. And op is fine with a week to europe

either hes safe in which case two weeks in Thailand us fine, or he’s not in which case op needs to be fighting to stop access altogether …. Which will be a long drawn out battle unlikely to win

He is not that safe really
He smokes weed every day and is addicted to porn
He's extremely manipulative with black moods and rages
But he can be extremely charming and he is a loving father
I wanted to fight the 50/50 but was advised not to as I could have lost and the lengthy court battle would have wiped me out financially and emotionally. Instead I chose to invest in my own healing and my relationship with the kids.
I think the idea of the holiday brings it all into sharp focus again. So I just need to draw a line under it and move forward.

Sorry, he sounds horrid. But I don't think there's much more you can do sadly. You're giving your kids a loving stable home while they are with you and they'll see that in time

How do you know he smokes weed everyday? You've been separated 2.5 years.

You're absolutely right- that's my focus and I have moved past the hope of vindication. Best case scenario is that we can both live happy lives and give them what they need by being our best selves. I can only control my side of that.

Why are you asking me that?

My best advice is to try and take a week’s holiday with a good friend/friends while they are away. This will recharge you, distract you, and give you your own sense of self and value. I did this (with some difficulty) and it plugged me back in with my old friends; I felt supported and busy (it was a camino-style holiday), and if things go badly on his holiday, you are back at the end of the first week, in the event that they cut it short.

He sounds like a dreadful person to bring young kids to somewhere as different, far away, and exotic as Thailand. Has he the patience for a long flight, jet lag, kids’ needs in a hot and humid destination, with a (presumably) younger girlfriend on minder/girlfriend duty?

Its hard, but let this year be a watershed, be available when they come back, and be prepared to say ‘never again: it didn’t work’ or to accept that actually they enjoyed themselves.

Thanks Sleepprettydarling, that's great advice and actually a walking or cycling holiday would be fantastic. Being active and having a sense of achievement will really help. I've started planning with my pals already.

I have learned that really important mindset of reframe and refocus over the last few years but guess I needed a bit of extra help this time. Thanks Mumsnet

Either he is not a good father due to his weed smoking life or he is.

If he is not a good father you should be seeking steps to address the contact (50/50) he has with his children.

As he has this contact routinely then it is perfectly acceptable for him to take them on holiday.

When I questioned the actions of my ex, with my barrister I was told that ‘as a reasonable and safe adult he can make decisions for his children’ - unless I was saying and could prove, that he is not a reasonable and safe adult.

You may have a bigger issue to resolve to keep your children safe, than a holiday. If you are not prepared/able to address this, then your ex can make decisions about other things.

@TheSandgroper - the OP won’t get a choice to stop this unless the bigger picture is addressed.

@ArlaDae I agree with you all the way but given the SE Asian drug scene, I would be fighting tooth and nail to keep my kids at home. As a prolific weed smoker, the ex is just not to be trusted up there.

@ArlaDae in my opinion he is not a good enough father to have them 50/50 and they would be safer with me with weekend access.

However the advice I received from support services during the very difficult separation period was that the outcome would be uncertain if contested in court. He is from a wealthy family and has significant financial backing where I do not. Maybe I would win but it would be a long drawn out battle that would deplete me financially and emotionally and ultimately the conflict would impact the kids negatively for a significant period of their formative years.

This is a common theme often addressed on MN. Children are weaponised by the abusive partner. Apparently the courts don't take 'recreational' drug use too seriously.

I agree with your analysis that if he's safe enough for 50/50 then a holiday is the tip of the iceberg. In my view it is neither.