Divorce lawyer experienced in covert narcissism

[Pickleperkins]

Hi! Does anyone have a good divorce lawyer they could recommend? I need someone who has alot experience of dealing with covert narcissists please. Ideally in the Oxfordshire/Bucks area. Thank you.

Hmmm, I don’t think this is a lawyer’s job but rather a psychotherapist’s?

Hi,
I’m seeing a therapist but have been advised that if I am going to file for divorce that I should seek a lawyer with proven experience in dealing with narcissists. They play the system, lie and deceive and I want support in managing this.

Yes, you need a specific lawyer. Absolutely.

I cannot help but bumping for you.

Shamelessly place marking as in the same situation .

I imagine that a lot of people in less than amiable divorce proceedings lie and try to play the system, without having armchair diagnoses.

There's a really good podcast called Narcissists in Divorce you might find useful. Dr Supriya McKenna

If you can afford it I would recommend going to an experienced partner in a family law practice with proven experience in the area you’re specifically worried about children/division of assets etc.
While your case might seem unique to you it will have similarities to many of the cases these types of professionals deal with on a daily basis.

People with NPD are a certain type of evil: their children included. They just want to win. The wife deserves nothing.
You have to live it to understand.This is why OP needs a certain type of lawyer. (They do exist)

Why do you feel it is an "armchair diagnosis"? @AsYouMightBe

Dr Ramani on youtube is excellent on this.Good Luck x

Top Rule:never mention narcissim in court.

*their children ARE included (in their hatred)

I’m so sorry to hear that. Hope you’ve got some good support around you

Thank you @BlackStrayCat. Please can you explain why it shouldn’t be mentioned (not that I was planning to). Thanks so much

From what I have read and researched (a lot) you point out ALL the features that you, your psychologist, I and the specialist lawyer know are concrete signs of NPD and you hope and pray the judge will see the narcissist for what they are. But you do not mention NPD.

Eg " he/she always drives really fast in the car when angry with me/my DC to frighten them/me. He/she forged my signature in the bank and pretended he/she hadnt. He/she told everyone I was an alcoholic/neglectful parent/drug addict and isolated me. He/she would only give me access to money for food and checked my receipts etc etc. Whatever it may be. Covert narcissists are different from grandiose (as you will know) Covert narcissists=extremely insecure master manipulators and liars. Whole life walking on eggshells.

You do not "armchair diagnose" them, (as you have already seen the attitude you will get on this thread.) Your lawyer will know this. I have not once mentioned narcissim (in the many ridiculous delaying proceses/interviews I have been through so far with SS, court psychologists, (my poor teenage DC)) and will not. Just answer facts and stay cool.

Believe me it is hard. They will not negotiate one jot. They are out to destroy you. But... being someone with NPD means they will trip themselves up.
They have a skewed reality. The truth will out and you need to look very calm and sane.

Any emails/evidence is always useful too.
Do try and find the experienced lawyer though. (Mine isnt: legal aid, but I have prepared everything so carefully it will be fine, I hope!)

dont go calling your ex a narcissist. It is honestly the most hyped and overused meme in the world. And you can see from this thread people suddenly feel they know your ex, - they have never met him! They know nothing about him!

They,,,, they.... they...they... etc, as if calling someone a narcissist is evidence that they are somehow part of some massive, evil hive mind!

Maybe your exes therapist has called you a narcissist.

I have no idea about OPs ex.

I know about NPD though. Luckily it appears you do not.

www.setfords.co.uk/our-people/profile/kathryn_hulmes/#:~:text=Kathryn%20is%20a%20Family%20Law,the%20arrangements%20for%20the%20children.

If you Google it, quite a few family law firms have articles on line about narcissists and divorce. Have a look at the reviews and I hope you find a good one.

you know nothing what so ever about the OPs ex. Yet you feel qualified to say this about them

They will not negotiate one jot. They are out to destroy you. But... being someone with NPD means they will trip themselves up.
They have a skewed reality

@BlackStrayCat thank you for the advice. Your response actually took my breathe away as practically every example you gave, I have experienced. I will be sure not to reference NPD as I DO recognise that it is a term that is banded around too lightly. However, after an 18 years marriage, where I have walked constantly on eggshells, been verbally abused, at the end of unrelenting gas lightning and crazy making, almost nonsensical arguments, I have feel like I have a pretty good steer on what I am dealing with.

And he will want to destroy me.
This is what he says about anyone who he consider has ‘wronged him’.

The best of luck and strength to anyone in the same position. Thanks for all the advice I will seek out the podcasts, books and contacts.

I do, DM me.

Blackstraycat is absolutely right, Top rule is don’t mention or say Narcissistic in court, especially at this time as the word is everywhere and being overused.

You need to guide the judge to think this, without ever actually saying the word, however you will probably find lots of people don’t give a shit if his a narc or not and won’t change the outcome.

Every experienced family lawyer will have experience of this.

Look at the independent directories Chambers & Partners and Legal 500 for those most highly regarded in your area. Some really good firms near you. Look at website profiles then speak to a couple and go with your gut.

As well as not mentioning narcissism in court, ensure you don't mention it to Cafcass when they interview you. I mentioned it in passing -I didn't even say he's a narcissist. I think I referenced some narcissistic type behaviour and they turned it and quoted me for having called him a narcissist.

My experience with Cafcass is that they have no connection between what they write and the impact it will have particularly in an abusive situation. Watch your back.

Because the OP doesn’t mention that this man was diagnosed by a healthcare professional, only that her own therapist (who is presumably not also her ex’s therapist, is unlikely to have met him, far less worked with him, and isn’t qualified to diagnose NPD) said she should seek out a particular type of divorce lawyer. NPD is a very specific (and very rare) diagnosis.

Because ‘narcissist’/ ‘narcissistic’ is almost invariably used on Mn to mean ‘someone who behaves badly to me’.

Absolutely, NPD is not being a "narc". Completely different. Drives me mad. Everyone is a bit narcissitic. It is not being late or unfaithful or shouting once/forgetting a birthday or refusing to clean.

People with NPD do not volunteer for diagnosis. It is also hard to distinguish from other Cluster B personality disorders: pyschopathy eg.

IMO OP 100% needs a specialist lawyer and was right to ask. She just asked a question, not opinion; she knows. Most posters have been very helpful. IMO after 18 years (like OP), once you have seen a pyschiatrist and done all the research possible: once you have seen it and lived it, you cannot unsee it. You seize the opportunity to escape and have to be totally brave and prepared.

If you have DCs they realise too and you have to set an example and leave as soon as possible. (12+) Never underestimate how people with NPD weaponise and abuse their DCs. It is horrific.

Basically, I agree with you! I also totally agree with the OP.