No maintenance or rubbish solicitor?

[ConfusedAboutDivorce]

Not really a MN post since I am not a mum, but sadly I am going through a divorce.
Now, let's talk about the financials, in theory we want to keep it amicable, but I have actually spoken to a solicitor for an initial assessment and got fairly disappointed.
We have no kids, both approximately 50 y.o.
To give some rough figures (don't want to be identified!) my STBXH makes 90k before pension, while I make 20k. Equity in 2-bed flat of 350k (500k value, 150k mortgage). Then 200k of savings and around 500k of pension (yes, we have been saving aggressively!).

The solicitor talked about a 50/50 split in the assets and that's it, no maintenance really.
He told me about all the ways the assets can be split like I keep the flat but not the pension, we sell the flat and split everything, etc... which is all very vague and unhelpful. STBXH doesn't want the flat and mentioned something like we sell the flat as he says it's in expensive area and split everything, but I wouldn't want to go through the hassle of selling the flat.

Now the sticking point: the solicitor said I won't get any maintenance as I can more or less support myself. STBXH didn't mention it either. Instead I read online on several UK lawyers websites that maintenance is actually awarded in case of income disparity and based on needs and ability to pay. My STBXH can definitely pay some maintenance with that income. It also makes sense, I come from another European country, where that massive income imbalance would definitely be compensated I think.

Which is true? The solicitor didn't seem very convincing, should I dump him and find someone better? If there is no maintenance, can I aim for 60/40 split, given my lower income? I forgot to ask this to the solicitor.

Yes, it is true I can "survive" with my income, but a part from owning a small flat I will struggle to retire and will have very little savings if any, while my STBXH won't have any issue at all.

We live in London area, so higher cost of living. I have seen other MN threads about maintenance not being given but they seem to be compensated by something like 60/40 split or more.

I cant see you getting spousal maintenance as there is no reason you cant work full time. You haven't sacrified your career to bring up a family.

@MissSmiley that’s not correct. 15 years would be considered a medium length marriage (there may also be cohabitation before that which may make longer).

Every case is fact specific, and parties will try and run ring fencing arguments, but where there is not a lot of assets (and this is a case where there is not masses) not likely to be a good argument.

The presence of children does not alter the ring fence position. Minors of the family are the courts first consideration under s25 Matrimonial Causes Act (but not only concern).

Ring-fencing arguments tend to be even less successful when kids are involved as “needs are greater” court is usually trying to have to find enough budget to house both parties in houses which are big enough for kids. Courts will therefore look to any assets to cover parties needs.

Why should he have to get a 400k mortgage? If he’s 50 and on 90k that will be a massive monthly outgoing which he won’t be able to afford, just because op earns less, and chooses to work part time

op I exiect you would get more assets, like 55% or so but that doesn’t make it right.
you should go back full time now -oh wait, you’re trying to low ball it to get more

have some pride and pay your own way

I doubt either of them can borrow > 1.5x salary at age 50+ to buy property. Glad to be told I'm wrong.

MNer said something about Divorce makes you poorer. Accept this & you'll be a lot saner.

Fair outcome, they are both very amicable & don't waste stupid money on lawyers (WTAF, £40k??) Then They both walk away with maximum £175k + £100k + some pension arrangement.

Then he has £275k plus he can borrow maybe £135k, his budget to buy is £410k

She has £275k plus she can borrow maybe £30k, her budget to buy a property is £305k. She can go get a £90k job if she wants to borrow £135k.

They can both reduce their borrowings by £20k (each) if they really want to waste money & sanity on lawyers.

Skill up and get a better job. You don't have kids holding you back. Maintenance takes into account tje damage that kids do to a career.

What's the reason for not working full time til now?

The figures are crazy. I suspect the ex husband will NEED a lawyer because OP seems to want claim as MUCH as possible!. OP can move some where far cheaper for a start.

You took all his pension fund?

You seem aggrieved that your husband will wealthier and be able to save more than you? He earns more than 4x than you, and once you are divorced he has no responsibility for you. If you want the same you need to try and find a better job.

How would you have managed to buy a home if you had never married him? I’m guessing you’d be renting? I don’t want to sound too harsh but you can’t expect to earn buttons and live mortgage-free in London, it’s an utter pipe dream.

I am a lawyer - not a family one - but am currently getting divorced so I know a bit about this.

The capital split will be determined on the basis of needs. The disparity between your incomes will impact on needs because your ability to raise and service a mortgage is lower, so you may need more equity to re-house yourself. That said, your housing "need" is for a one bed flat/house, not more.

Your most valuable asset is the pension £500k. Often a divorcing spouse will accept a share of the cash equivalent value of the pension in order to get more equity up front. However given the size of the pension fund and your age, I would be asking your lawyer if it would be sensible to get an actuarial report on the future value of the pension, because it may be better for you to seek a pension sharing order, since on your income you won't be able to make up a lot of pension contributions and you aren't decades away from retirement either.

As for spousal maintenance, with the overall level of assets I'd say it is unlikely that you will get spousal maintenance, since you could be adequately provided for from the available capital on a clean break basis, even if that means you get more than 50%.

Also, you say he can "easily" afford a mortgage of £300k-£400k on a £90k salary. A mortgage at that level, on 20 years repayment, amounts to repayments of about £1900-£2500 a month at current rates. On his salary his net pay is about £5k a month, or £4,600 if he makes 10% pension contributions. He would be reasonable to want a shorter repayment term than 20years at age 50, which would push up the monthly repayments. Spending half your net income or more on mortgage repayments is not "easily" affording it.

The approach taken by the court is not to equalise the post-divorce positions of a childless couple, but to meet their "needs".

How is that £500k of pension(s) distributed, how much is currently in each person's name? Is it defined contribution or what sort?

That's SIPP mostly in his name. I do have a tiny (I think valued 30k) defined contribution pension.

@Elektra1 Do you know if "needs" includes also needs in retirement? 50/50 split does allow me not to have the flat mortgage-free so my short term "needs" would be actually met, but I would have almost no pension (except the state pension), that also stresses me.

SIPP is good, easily cashed in partly IIRC.
You need to put your tiny pension in the mutual pot, too.
Also any valuable assets like your car or an heirloom, too. I think every object with value > £500 goes on the table for discussion.

From a tax PoV, AFAIK, you should have built up a separate large pension in your name all these years. Too late, obviously. I am under impression he'll pay a hefty tax penalty trying to give any part of that pension to OP, am I wrong?

My mother who got alimony, she was convinced that my evil father would lose his job so not be able to pay alimony, so she had to go out & work hard for herself. She reckoned she was owed but had no trust he'd keep his high income, is what I mean.

"Needs" is current needs, not whole of life needs. If you're 50, you've got 17 years till state pension age, and will be expected to maximise your income in that time.

With £500k between you in pension, you really need advice on how that will be split, and in your shoes I'd be thinking about retaining a healthy portion of it for your own future pension needs (rather than putting it into a property).

Your full time salary must be something around £27k if 75% is £20k. On £27k you could borrow between £87,800 - £122,000. On £20k, between £65,000-£90,000. You say you live in Greater London area. You can definitely get a one bed flat for c.£200k that's commutable into London. Taking half the £350k equity and half the £200k savings would give you £275k before you've even dealt with the pension or added a mortgage.

You might have to move area but I don't think you'll be unable to buy.

I think if you are earning 20k then you are min wage if working full time? Sell the flat, move out of London you could buy something outright with £175k. You can earn 20k anywhere. With no mortgage you could live comfortably on 20k or possibly buy a bigger place and get a lodger. I think if you don’t have kids then you both get to move on and have a clean break

IMO sell everything up and 50/50 split. Walk away with what you get and don’t look back. Spousal maintained is usually based on children. Prev situation with family was so… Wife stopped working as husband earned over 100K+ wife was home maker, looked after house, kids, horses ect. He had affair and left. Wife couldn’t get a job to support herself and child due to 15years not working. No education and unable to retrain. Wife in theory gave up work to allow husband to work to his full potential. Therefore she was allowed 65-70% of what was accumulated within the marriage. TBH husband was happy to pay ex off and start again. He still had an amazing income and new partner. While ex wife world crashed down. Unfortunately it’s easy to spend someone else money so her life style has changed a great deal but she can’t keep within her means working at a friends shop for a income as brought a 3 bed cottage needed loads of work. Silly silly lady.

Then sell the expensive (London?) flat and move to a cheaper area when you retire where you can buy outright and release equity too. You seem to believe that your life should continue exactly as it is.

I know it’s unpalatable but I think you need to give up the idea of keeping your current flat/house.

Don’t lightly trade away your share of his pension. That’s incredibly important and women do it too often in divorce and many family solicitors don’t calculate pension values correctly. I’ll try to find an intelligible online resource to explain it.

I think the house needs to be sold and the equity split between you, you need to start saving like mad and go full time, and you need to buy in a cheaper area of Greater London with a mortgage when you have a record of your new full time earnings.

Don’t leave the house until financials are agreed and you have the order. You can probably wait until it’s sold, - depending on the order. Could you stay with friends or family for a small “rent” while you save to buy? If not I’d honestly get a room in a house share during this period. I was lucky to be able to my mother and making a small contribution and save for 15 months.

Who's idea was it to split? Your ideal situation is not realistic in any way shape or form.

50:50 is a fair split- you have not sacrificed your career for children/his career and he has financially supported you throughout the marriage but is no longer required to do so.

The questions that are relevant here is whether you want to live mortgage free is a need or not.

First up, you need is a place to live. That could be a rented property and you have more than enough capital to rent.

Second you can obviously improve your income and get a small mortgage. Enough to buy a one bed property in London. All he has to do is produce a quick property search to show there are properties at 300k in London. In fact I found over 1000 of them.

This is all he needs to produce to show your needs will be met. There is zero reason for your income to be so low in somewhere like London. Other than choice, which you are entitled to but it comes with consequences for you and not for him. Same applies to whether you get a mortgage or not and if you decide to live in a more expensive flat.

The best you can hope for is that he trades some equity to keep his pension. But there isn’t a lot of wriggle room if he wants to own his own property.

Maybe you need to consider whether living in a high cost area on a minimum wage salary is viable. There are low cost areas that will give you the same income and you can get a decent property.

Above all listen to your solicitor and then instruct them on what you want. But be realistic because if you aren’t your share of the split goes to the solicitor and you are worse off.

So you more than 50% of assets so you can buy a home mortgage free AND expect to have your retirement sorted as well?

I am a woman myself and I am baffled by other women who haven’t had children thinking they deserve maintenance once splitting from a partner. Why should he continue paying your way when you haven’t stopped a career, sacralised anything in life to raise your joint children. You are going to divorce and no longer be connected why should he be paying you money for no good reason?