How to tell if a marriage is over

[NiquiD]

We have been married for 26 years and have two children (18&20). We married the year I turned 20 and have literally grown up as a married couple. I’ve never lived alone and never had an affair. We’ve had issues for years and had counselling ages ago which seemed to help at the time but there have been changes more recently. We seem on different life paths. He wants us to live on his parents farm (once they have passed away, they are mid 80’’s) and farm it. I do not want to. I’m undertaking a degree so I can do a job I love until retirement and also be financially independent. Our home is in a state of disrepair because he spends all his time and a lot of money farming (whilst working full time) and I don’t feel he is being fair when he prioritises the farming above our home, kids and me. I do not want to live my life being dictated to by livestock and crops, I saw how his parents lives were: never having holidays together, the lambing in all weathers, the harvesting meaning summers were all about the crops, and just farming life is not for me. This, along with some very questionable financial decisions he’s made without consulting me has left me feeling angry and resentful. He’s not a bad man but he doesn’t take care of his physical appearance, he’s quite boring and not intellectually stimulating for me. I no longer find him sexually attractive and ‘give in’ to once a week intercourse because the arguments we have when he feels deprived is just too much which just makes me dislike him even more. I have tried explaining how this all makes me feel and he would promise changes but they’re short lived and I can’t go round in circles any more so I’ve given up trying but he just takes that as I’m obviously happy because I’m not ‘nagging’ anymore. But I’m just tired of nothing ever changing. I am desperately unhappy. Been on ssri’s because I figured maybe it’s just a me problem but still the same underlying unhappiness. I worry If I leave I’ll miss the few good elements of our marriage. He is a hard worker, he can fix almost anything and he’s a good person. I don’t want to hurt him but I really can’t see me suddenly becoming happy in this marriage yet I am petrified that I will still be unhappy if I leave it. Any pearls of wisdom would be appreciated so much. X

Forgetting the farm etc, do you love him and want to spend the rest of your life with him?

Forgetting the farm etc,

It wouldn't matter how much I love someone if they were expecting me to change career for them from one I enjoy and is well paid and low stress to an extremely physical and stressful low paid one in later life, they can fuck right off just for that.

I honestly think that when you stop ‘nagging’ it’s over. I don’t bother any more because I’ve mentally checked out.

@DustyLee123 i actually care about him, but no, I’m not in love with him anymore. Too many things have gone and the cumulative effect is I’ve fallen out of love. That’s the first time I’ve actually acknowledged that fact 😳😳

@shearwater2 i think he envisioned some idyllic retirement for the both of us. But I know enough about farming to know idyllic it is not! At least not in my eyes.

I think I will always care for my DH as we’ve been together a long time, and he’s the father of my children, but I don’t love him. Too many things have happened, too much resentment, to love him.
It’s good to know it, it helps with the decision.

@Astridspuzzle this is also true! I suffer with low self esteem and severe lack of confidence maybe due to my situation, maybe not but it makes me question everything over and over until I feel like I’m going mad. Hence my reason for posting, to try and gain a wee bit of clarity through others experiences and to help my brain know that I’m justified in feeling a way about things. I really appreciate your insight and opinions xx

@DustyLee123 exactly the same here. Too much unforgivable things have gone before and while I do forget the intricacies of what went on (memory is like Dory) I cannot forget the way he made me feel in those moments. In a way I used to hope he would make such a monumental mistake that would be my last straw but I realise now that’s wrong and the cowards way out. It has to be me and I have to be brave enough to see it through because the second half of my life is waiting. Xx

Everything you’re posting resonates with me so much op.

Ive mentally checked out. I’ve told him I want to separate and that Im no longer in love with him. There has been financial and sexual abuse, coercion etc. He of course struggles to see it but as Dusty said above - i don’t actually care anymore. I feel like I’ve become a shell of the person I used to be. It’s been two weeks since I told him and it’s been a bit of a rollercoaster. He flits from apologising and promising to change to denial and gaslighting. The problem is getting him to realise that it doesn’t matter at this stage - im pretty resolute.

Just posting in solidarity 👊

@SecondChancesAtLife wow, congratulations and so much respect to you for having the courage to do it! I hear you when you say you got to a point, pushed so far that there is no other option, you know you’ve done the right thing, 100% I’m checked out for sure, I’m done but I can’t tell him yet, the timing is terrible and so I bite my lip as best I can and carry on, knowing that I don’t have a lifetime of this, just a few months. Can I ask, and you can pm if you’d like….did you have the divorce proceedings under way when you had your conversation? Are you still living with him? I’m thinking the only viable way I can deal with this is to have the conversation face to face but have a place to go because I know for a fact he will not just go or go quietly…. But I have nowhere? What do people do in that limbo period where, the cards are on the table but neither can leave?

I haven’t filed for divorce yet no. It’s going to take time as I’m a sahm and he’s a high earner (lots of assets) so complicated but I should hopefully end up ok. As long as I have a decent house and enough money to live relatively comfortably on il be ok.

Would like to handle it without solicitors but il have to see how it goes. atm he’s saying he’ll be fair and split 50/50. We’re getting the house valued next week so that’s a start! He is a good dad and loves the dcs more than anything so I think we’re on the same page there with not wanting things to turn nasty 🤞

Im fully aware it could take years though - I’m not so bothered about divorcing as such as much as separating/living apart. I just don’t want to live with him/be around him any more.

He is handling it a lot better than I thought but it still needs to sink in I think. Im determined though and MN is helping a lot!

Giving in to sex when you don't want it, is rape.

Please leave this awful man!!!

@SecondChancesAtLife forgive my ignorance, but is it possible to separate when the joint assets, like the house, still belong to both parties? I suppose if both agree to it, it can just be sold and the proceeds split; is that what you think you’ll do? I just cannot imagine my dh will do anything like that, I think he would be so hurt and stunned that he’d go out of his way to make things difficult for me. I do not think it would be feasible for me to continue living under the same roof as him once the conversation has been had. He won’t physically hurt me but my god it won’t be pleasant.

@SwordToFlamethrower even if I’ve given permission? I’ll just say ‘right, come on then’ and then lie there until he’s done. I’m not trying to say it’s a good thing but I’m not sure I can brand him a rapist. Am I really being naive? 😳

I think if you're honest with yourself op, you know that your marriage is over.

He sounds very selfish, the taking out a loan is very worrying and him coercing you into sex is very wrong - and I would say is abusive as you're too beaten down to say no.

Can you wait for another year and a half?

Sounds miserable.

There's never a good time, what if his parents pass away, you're not going to feel able to leave him then.

@Morewineplease10 i agree that at this point i know it’s done and dusted, and i think ive known it for a while, I hadn’t admitted it to myself and I’ve never been able to discuss it with anyone. I know that there’s never a good time, but slap bang in the middle of a degree that is intrinsic to my future as a single person can’t be a good time 🥴🥴

Forget the labelling just now. He knows you don't want it - because he has to coerce/nag/whatever you into it. He knows if he doesn't, it won't happen. He's ok with doing that in order to have it. He knows during it that you're not that into it. He doesn't care.

Who has sex with someone they know doesn't want it and doesn't care that they don't want it?

Enthusiastic consent is a thing. Men who not only don't need, but also don't care if women are enthusiastic about sex in order to get horny are called something.

Let him whine on and be a pain cos he doesn't get "sex". Honestly, you'll feel a lot better when you never have to go through that again. At the moment you're so used to it, you don't realise how bad it is.

Did you read the article I linked previously? You may find it difficult to accept - here are a couple of quotes

"In a relationship

Being in a relationship does not mean you give ongoing consent.

Everyone has the right to decide when they do and don’t want to have sex. Once you say no, your partner should respect that. Any threats, wheedles, guilt trips, or other persuasion intended to wear you down counts as coercion"

And

"Assault refers to any sexual contact that happens without your explicit, voluntary consent. Since consent given under coercion isn’t freely given, it doesn’t count as consent.

It follows, then, that coerced sex (when it involves penetration) would count as rape, even if the other person didn’t use physical force or violence."

@Escapingafter50years i did read it and I think you’re right in that I’m just too entrenched in it to see it for what I really is. I actually asked him why does he do it when he knows I don’t want to and he can ‘take care of himself’ if he’s that desperate and he said, it’s not the same because he’s feeling isolated from me and sex is his way of regaining a connection. Which just made me feel bad because he looked so hurt. Like I’ve driven him to this because I’ve mentally and emotionally detached from him. I guess I’ve not been 100% open with him about how I truly feel so he’s only going on what I’ve said which is my fault. I’m living a lie and the consequences are my own doing.

UPDATE: I’ve finally had the courage to lay it all out. Everything I feel, need, want. He claims he had no clue I felt this way and has suggested I’m just stressed/depressed and should start back on the meds. I told him I would but they just mask the problem and make me totally numb. He has also tried bargaining, reminding me of the good times, promising the world and says he can’t accept that it can’t be fixed. I’ve been resolute. I feel better when he’s not at home because I can’t stand how hurt he looks so I’m avoiding him. I just hope I’ve got the strength to stick to my guns and don’t let the fear weaken me. Thanks to all that offered support and advice - I couldn’t have done it without you xx

His ignorance to your feelings should be enough. You have so many years of life to enjoy without him. The fact he says go back on meds is such a warning. You don't need meds to make u put up with his behaviour.
Not sure if u do have meds for anxiety depression or menopause...I have these so no judgement.
I'm a post divorce woman who spent a long time thinking of HIS issues and how HE would cope rather than thinking how much better I would be without having to think about him.
U can't always help someone no matter how much love or hisyou have.
And any man that still has sex knowing u don't really want to is vile and not a husband.

Well done. Stay strong, you can do this. It's so freeing not to worry about XHs reaction, or treading on eggshells all the time. The whole house felt so much lighter when he left. I hope you find that peace.