How to tell if a marriage is over

[NiquiD]

We have been married for 26 years and have two children (18&20). We married the year I turned 20 and have literally grown up as a married couple. I’ve never lived alone and never had an affair. We’ve had issues for years and had counselling ages ago which seemed to help at the time but there have been changes more recently. We seem on different life paths. He wants us to live on his parents farm (once they have passed away, they are mid 80’’s) and farm it. I do not want to. I’m undertaking a degree so I can do a job I love until retirement and also be financially independent. Our home is in a state of disrepair because he spends all his time and a lot of money farming (whilst working full time) and I don’t feel he is being fair when he prioritises the farming above our home, kids and me. I do not want to live my life being dictated to by livestock and crops, I saw how his parents lives were: never having holidays together, the lambing in all weathers, the harvesting meaning summers were all about the crops, and just farming life is not for me. This, along with some very questionable financial decisions he’s made without consulting me has left me feeling angry and resentful. He’s not a bad man but he doesn’t take care of his physical appearance, he’s quite boring and not intellectually stimulating for me. I no longer find him sexually attractive and ‘give in’ to once a week intercourse because the arguments we have when he feels deprived is just too much which just makes me dislike him even more. I have tried explaining how this all makes me feel and he would promise changes but they’re short lived and I can’t go round in circles any more so I’ve given up trying but he just takes that as I’m obviously happy because I’m not ‘nagging’ anymore. But I’m just tired of nothing ever changing. I am desperately unhappy. Been on ssri’s because I figured maybe it’s just a me problem but still the same underlying unhappiness. I worry If I leave I’ll miss the few good elements of our marriage. He is a hard worker, he can fix almost anything and he’s a good person. I don’t want to hurt him but I really can’t see me suddenly becoming happy in this marriage yet I am petrified that I will still be unhappy if I leave it. Any pearls of wisdom would be appreciated so much. X

Lack of hormones provides additional clarity 😁

Or maybe it's just sands falling through the hourglass? You realise that life is finite and you just want something else.

Sending you unmumsnetty hugs 💐. Hope the chat here has been helpful.

@Astridspuzzle as I’ve alluded to in original post, we have had issues for a lonnnng time. He used to get extremely jealous when I went out with friends to the point i now have none. We had counselling. I suggested it again more recently and he agreed but never followed it through. He often says he will do things but doesn’t. I am at the bottom of his priority list. I expressed my concerns about him managing a farm whilst working full time as suggested he makes his life easier by losing either the cattle or the sheep but he did neither. I don’t want him to give up his dream because then he will just resent me forever, especially if I leave anyway .

Oh no that's terrible. I think you might have posted before at one stage (I may be wrong, apologies if so)?

Do you think if you stood in a pen and mooed constantly he'd listen?

@Astridspuzzle it sounds like another poster as I just created this account for advice, maybe another woman going through something scarily similar, in which case, she has my utmost sympathy x

@Astridspuzzle quite probably! Or he’d think something was wrong and call the knacker man!

Ah okay, apologies. I think the patterns of behaviour are unfortunately common.

😂 or quite possibly a bewildered vet

🤣 nah they cost too much and he’s tighter than a sharks arse!

@NiquiD, at some point you have to ask;

'What about me?'.

Because, do you know what? You matter.

You matter a lot.

@Tetsuo hahhaha! After years of being ‘mum’ and ‘wife’ I barely know who ‘I’ am anymore. But Thankyou, I needed to hear that xxx

@NiquiD

I'm glad you may be hearing that.

I'm not going to push it at all.

Just let it sink in. And then think about it.

I was listening to an audiobook recently and the woman was talking about how she had to make a big decision in her life about her marriage. She found herself googling her question on the internet, and then she thought, why do I think random strangers will know what to do about my life better than I will? She talks about learning to listen to HERSELF, quieting all the outside interference and believing that she knows what's right for her. She calls it the 'knowing'. Now don't get me wrong, I love Mumsnet and hearing the experiences and wisdom of other women - there are some very smart and excellent folks on here. But I suspect that, if you go deep inside yourself and listen to your knowing, you know that you are done with this chapter of your life and are needing to move on and see what comes next. That's a scary but also liberating place to be. You're only 45 - you have so much life ahead of you. We waste so much time trying to fix things that can't be fixed, and bending ourselves into to so many shapes to make everything okay for everyone, except for ourselves. I hope you find your answers - best of luck for your future.

I think if there's a life lesson that I've learned about relationships, it's that you can't change anyone else, only yourself.

I've learned from CBT that it's important to look out for your emotions and feelings and be aware of them. And that anger is a secondary emotion - there's another emotion underpinning it.

So listening to your feelings (the knowing or whatever) is really important.

Some really good things to chew on there @NiquiD

I divorced at 58 after 30 years marriage. Entirely different circumstance, but it is always a hard decision.
A few things you might want to explore to help you make a decision one way or other

1. right now your future is visualised in your mind as either being on this farm married to farmer, or continuing as is. The 3rd option of divorce and doing your own life is lacking clarity potentially, beyond the divorce part. Imhe, I couldn’t make that final decision till I could clearly visualise what a divorced future would be. I needed to know where I would live, what type of house I could afford, what my income would be, how my work life and social life would change. The unknown drives fear. Until you replace the unknown with known you can’t get beyond that natural fear of taking that big step
2. one way to remove that unknown , is to start doing your own fact finding and research on practical stuff. Face the demons of what divorce process is and likely outcomes. If you can rise above your disagreement divorce doesn’t have to be stressful process or expensive. I used the link at top of this board to ADVICE NOW. their guides will explain process in detail. They tell you what tasks you need a solicitor for, what you don’t and when you might use one . This is important BEFORE you go off to see a solicitor for free 30 mins because they’ll be selling their services and not tell you all the tasks you can do yourselves! The ADVICE NOW guides explain “ fair settlement” based on future needs. It does not, contrary to what a lot of folks state on here, start with 50:50 split- that’s ideal BUT “ fair settlement “ legally comes first. Understanding fair settlement and how it applies to both of you is going to help you determine your future finances and start to visualise the resulting life you will have. ADVICE NOW guides also explain the legal financial declarations that are needed- you could potentially start to gather data about both yours and husbands assets to complete this and see what it’ll mean for you.
3. I also found it helpful to look at the “ grief pathway” or other “ change curves” on line. Divorce, even where you want it, is a massive change and part of most of us will “ grieve” for what we will loose from divorce. Understanding how emotions and feelings will change, why we feel what we feel, even now, is immensely helpful - I’d argue to both of you
4. If you do decide to divorce, do everything you can to avoid acrimony. Park anger , work through stuff pragmatically and logically and avoid engaging emotions. All divorce is “ no blame” now, financial agreements do NOT ( and haven’t since decades ago) take past behaviour into account. All that acrimony does is forces you to use solicitors more, and at £200+ an hour it’ll run bills into £1000s quickly. It’ll cause more delays on a process that can take 26 weeks in theory now, and cause you both huge stress. Plenty of people can and do park the acrimony and achieve divorce relatively simply and cheaply. Me and my ex were example despite his “ unreasonable behaviour “ we divorced for in 2021; we divorced in less than 4 months and spent £1400 in total legal and solicitors bills. You do both need to recognise that divorce WILL make you BOTH were off . Some folks don’t want to accept that and fight against it for years.

sorry there’s a lot here. Do please read ADVICE NOW guides. Even if you decide to make marriage work at this stage. You will be clearer for future if you decide later you want to divorce.

I would certainly divorce if taking up farming in my 50s was the alternative.

There’s very many similarities between your marriage and mine. I have made the decision to leave.

Like you I felt at the bottom of his priorities. He thought I was always in the wrong and he often told me so. I was also desperately unhappy. I took SSRIs to help weather my emotions and I also stopped trying to explain my feelings and hoping he would understand. My resentment started growing.

Once I stopped pushing back he actually got worse and I felt like the annoying junior employee that he couldn’t sack. He also made significant financial decisions against my advice and smaller ones without my knowledge. There is no farming involved!

I went to see a therapist. I know realise he is not a good man. He is selfish and arrogant. My therapist called him an entitled bully. He doesn’t see me as a separate human being with a right to my own opinions and feelings. I am an extension of him and should think and feel as he does. He is very driven to achieve his own goals, and thinks he can bully me into agreeing with him. I am merely something/one to validate him, make him look good, do the boring stuff (housework etc), and I should make no demands on him nor inconvenience him in any way.

Do you feel your husband thinks of you as his equal? Mine certainly didn’t. I have come across a phrase recently which is now my mantra and I repeat it endlessly.

I NEED TO BECOME THE MAIN CHARACTER IN MY OWN LIFE.

You have had a lot of good advice @Appleofmyeye2023 is especially good when she tells you that knowledge will empower you. I like Wikivorce.

We are still divorcing and my husband is angry with me because I have wrecked his ‘retirement plans’, I am legally entitled to some of his pension. I truly believe he thought I wouldn’t have the guts to go it alone, but anything is better than how he belittled and treated me for so many years.

I am probably 20 years older than you, but still think it’s worth starting a new life.

Please stop giving into sex. You will need to wrestle some power and self autonomy back into your marriage, if you want to divorce him. Not giving into his sex demands will be a start to you having some agency in your own life.

My husband said he didn’t see it coming. But if he’d stopped to listen to me even for one moment, it wouldn’t have been a surprise. There’s none so blind as those who won’t see.

Finally, don’t get hung up on ‘husband says’, husband wants’. Think only what you think, what you want. Best of luck. You deserve better.

Its incredible how quickly husbands suddenly want to change and go to counselling when you serve them with divorce papers.

Doesn’t divorce take into account prospective inheritance.

Cos that’s the farm….

In a good marriage you do support each other’s dreams, but that’s not possible if your dreams aren’t compatible and that’s no one’s fault. It sounds like he wants a ‘farming family’ which might be great for someone else but not you!

I think you need marriage counselling so you have a forum to really lay this out on the line to him. He can be a farmer, but you will not be involved at all. He needs to be willing to consider a change of attitude towards you and your involvement. The sex thing also needs a change of attitude - an investment in the two of you as a couple. If he won’t engage in any of this nothing can change, but if I were you I’d want to feel I’d tried everything before pulling the plug.

I'd been unhappy for a while but hadn't wanted to confront the issue. I buried my head in the sand and tried to make things better, which I thought it was for a bit. But it all came crashing down. But I'm so much happier. The relief was immense when he wasn't allowed to return to the family home and it was so much calmer here. I've had to step up my business to make ends meet and juggling the kids, dog and my needs can be exhausting but I don't regret it for a moment. I'd become so resentful to him and fortunately he didn't emotionally blackmail me into sex, just looked elsewhere for it!

It sounds like you've grown apart which isn't unusual when you marry so young. Maybe now is the time to do something for you. Start a new life. You've got another hopefully 30 to 40 years of life left. If he makes you deeply unhappy, do you really want to spend it with him?

OP I'm quite horrified at what you've been tolerating for a long time. You would hope to live for at least another 40 years, almost twice your life so far, and don't forget 18 of the years you've lived have been as a minor. You got married only 2 years into adulthood; I doubt you would have if you knew how things would turn out. I would say you're not only in a dysfunctional marriage, you're in a seriously abusive one. Some of the points you have made are:

You've had issues for years.

He prioritises his parents' farm above you, your children and your home.

He has a "blind determination" to make you live a life he knows you do not want.

He is mean, he would not pay for help.

He has made investments with family money without discussing it with you.

When you asked for a 2 week trial separation he would not give you space to think.

He used to get jealous of you going out with friends and now you have no friends left. (Classic isolation tactic of an abuser).

The statements above are all good reasons to break up, but the overall thing that horrifies me is him forcing you to have sex.

He makes you suffer when you don't want intimacy with him. Even though he knows you don't want it, he makes you go through with it. This is sexual coercion and is absolutely disgusting. A man who truly loved you would not do this at all, yet he is persistent in this. I would recommend you talk to Women's Aid.

Have a read of this if you think I'm overstating -

https://www.healthline.com/health/sexual-coercion?c=726696499188#coercion-vs-consent

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow i wouldn’t be interested in having anything he inherited. Even if i were intitled to anything, it’s not mine nor would i expect it. I’d simply want a fair share of what we’ve both worked for over the years. Xx