Divorce when ex is another nationality?

[Parmaviolet1719]

Hi everyone, my situation is fairly specific and I’m hoping to find someone who has been through something similar.

I’m getting divorced from my husband and it’s turning quite nasty and likely heading to court (we had been doing mediation). We have 2 daughters age 7 and 4 And share care 50/50. Ex is American and wants to take the children back there on holidays, at Christmas etc. latest letter from his solicitor states that he wants half the holidays, and the right to take them to America whenever he fancies in his time (it seems to imply this would be for up to3 weeks in summer!) at the moment the kids go back and forth on a 2-2-3 schedule which works well. Youngest daughter has a disability which amongst other things makes her emotionally young for her age, and she’s very closely attached to me. My question is, in court, what are they likely to decide in terms of him taking them to America? And just split of time generally in school holidays? I said he could take them for a week in summer but he doesn’t think that’s good enough. So far, the longest they’ve been with him is 5 nights in a row and littlest got upset and was crying for me. He doesn’t let them call me. I want to fight to stop him taking them there for too long of a trip, but am worried he’ll crush me in court because he’s got all the money he needs for the best representation, lots of clever friends and family, and I have no idea what I’m doing and very limited funds. Thank you.

As you share 50:50 I don’t think 3 weeks in summer is unreasonable.

As another mum with a husband from US, what his solicitor is asking for doesn't sound unreasonable. (We are not divorcing though.)

I assume most of the children's paternal family is in the US and will be spending time with them when there? If so, it would likely be beneficial to the children to build closer bonds with their wider family. This isn't easily achievable during a very short vacation with long flights involved.

Can you negotiate perhaps for periodic videocalls to be included if they are away for more than 5 days?

Is your husband intending to remain in the UK?

Does he intend to move back to the US?
He needs to stay in the UK.
Where is he from in the US?
Does he have positive feelings/ attitudes toward guns?
Any survival / wilderness experience?
Military training?

He absolutely MUST let the children call you, and you MUST be allowed to call them (within reason - not nine calls a day, monopolizing them for hours, etc).
This is really important. Make sure the judge is made aware of the fact that he's playing keepaway here, exhibiting signs of possessiveness and jealousy and vindictiveness toward you by refusing them permission to have contact with you.
File a motion requesting he issues an order requiring that you both allow contact by phone, text, email, and using features like Zoom, FaceTime, WhatsApp, etc, during each other's parenting time. He must be allowed to contact them, and they must be allowed to contact him while they're with you, too, in other words.

I think 3:3 is a fair division of the summer holidays, especially since you're currently doing 50:50. A three week spell in the US would be fair, I think, with two days of travel time included in the counting. But he would need to bring them back. If there's anything in your past relationship that indicates he would bolt and refuse to hand them back, you need to make it clear that this is a possibility.

You will want to revisit this if the DCs get summer jobs as teens.

Make sure the supreme importance of not interrupting the DCs' social or school or employment life or extracurricular activities is emphasised. You and he will need to cooperate when scheduling so you don't end up being signed up to schlep them to Cornwall for a week of surfing in May, for example.

When I divorced (albeit in the US), we divided up the year into ordinary time and holiday time.
Basically, he got EOW.
We each got every second Easter.
He got Thanksgiving and the day before Christmas every year, and I got Christmas Eve and Christmas Day every year.
He got twelve days during the summer holidays (two full work weeks plus the weekend in between). This was twelve days out of the 12 weeks we get here for summer.
The DCs got two weeks off school for Christmas. I got the first half of the break, and he got the second half, with the Christmas Eve and Christmas Day thing interrupting the first half usually.
All birthdays were celebrated on the day of the birthday at whatever home the children were in on the day. If a birthday party was organised, with invited guests, both parents had to have the option to be present and their schedules taken into account when organising.
I had them for Mother's Day, and he had them for Father's Day.
Visits by grandparents or other relatives did not interrupt the schedule.
Permission to travel would not be unreasonably withheld for extended family events, specifically weddings or funerals. Not destination weddings, however. 50th anniversaries or 80th birthday parties were by negotiation, taking into account school attendance regs, any social or extracurricular activities the DCs had. There was a hierarchy of extended family events, in other words.

The holiday time was in brackets and the ordinary time pattern of EOW was uninterrupted - for example, I had them the weekend before Easter/ Thanksgiving, he had them for Easter/ Thanksgiving, then he also had them the weekend afterwards. The aim of this was that nobody ever had them three weekends in a row including a holiday weekend.

Wrt birthdays - the other parent was expected to go to the birthday celebration on the day of the birthday, in the other parent's house or at a restaurant, or wherever it was held. Children could not be taken out of town for a birthday celebration on the day of the birthday (no trip to the beach, for instance, if it would make it hard for the other parent to attend).

It’s not about him having 3 weeks of the summer. He will have that. It’s about him having them for three weeks in one big block, rather than them going back and forth between us.

Is he likely to want to go home for 3 weeks in a block every summer, or might it be every few years? Is it feasible for him to be away for that long with work, etc?

Have you and the children visited the US with him? If you have and returned within a week, did you manage to have meaningful time with your in-laws?

If he is only allowed to go for a week, there would only be 4 days that weren't spent travelling or recovering/ adjusting to the time difference.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume he would get 3 weeks in the summer as a block.

The block of time is reasonable but it is also reasonable to ask to work towards that AND that video calls are facilitated whilst they are with him when it's more than 3 days.

You also need to look at on whose time they would be recovering from jet lag!

He has got a reasonable chance to get 3 weeks or at least 2 weeks. I mean at some stage you will both be going on 2 week holidays. The kids will be fine and won’t notice time passing.

They should be allowed to call you if they want but not because you want it. I’d say insisting on Daily scheduled calls is an overreach as it interferes with his time with them.

TBH you are being awkward here and over anxious. He won’t “crush you” in court. He just needs to state a 2-3 week holiday in another country to meet extended family is a good thing developmently.

Instead of responding with an offer to “allow” him you could just have asked whether the thinks they will be settled on a 3 week trip as it’s a long holiday for children. But again it is all relative. Three weeks romping around Yosemite is different from 3 weeks staying a relatives home.

you have 50/50 so I do not think you have a case here, one of those things you have to accept when you choose to marry someone foreign, regardless of money or not,

"He doesn’t let them call me" this is 100% offfff, he needs to fix this.

you said you were getting divorced in 2021, this is still ongoing, why?

I was diagnosed with incurable cancer at the end of 2021 so we decided to give things another go because to be honest I was scared of how I’d cope on my own. He then had another affair which I discovered back in the spring of this year, so I ended things again and here we are.

I’m not insisting on daily calls. I’ve asked for one call in a week but been told no. I am indeed over anxious because he’s making my life a misery, but I’m not sure what you mean by saying I’m being awkward. I’m trying to look out for my kids and do what’s best for them, and I don’t think (particularly for my youngest) that being away from their mum for as much as 3 weeks with no contact is what’s best. She’s only 4 years old and has a genetic syndrome which means she isn’t a typical 4 year old.

From the letter I get them impression he plans to take them there every other Christmas and in the summer for a long stretch. His job is quite flexible so I think he’ll be able to manage it.
we have been there before for 10 days. So there is precedent for them travelling there, but with me as well. It’s not just about the USA aspect, it’s about being away from me. I’m amazed how many people don’t seem to think there’s anything wrong with such a young child being taken from a parent for 3 weeks with no contact. They spent 5 nights with him at half term and my eldest told me she was kept up at night because the youngest was crying for me.

Are you taking about alternating weeks jetting back and forth across the Atlantic?

1 call a week is not at all an unreasonable request.
I think you might have to relent on the 3weeks in the US thing though. Have you done the travel before? Especially if there are connecting flights involved, a week is just too short - they’ll only get 3 or 4 full days at their destination. It might be really tricky for a year or two with your youngest, but you’re making decisions for the long term, not just for this summer.
I do think there should be something written in legally about these things getting suspended depending on your health though.

No, I’m saying he should take them for one long trip, but not for as long as 3 weeks. I don’t think they should be apart from either of us for that long when they are so young.

We’ve done the trip as a family of four several times. We’ve gone for 10ish days which has always been plenty of time to spend there and recover from the flight etc. it’s one straight flight, no connections or anything required.

It is not an issue of what is “best for them”. certainly not in all things all of the time.

It is about them having opportunities to spend time with their father and his family. This is a developmental good. As long as he can show he will manage the health condition he will have strong argument that this is a good thing. It would probably be a great experience.

You need to pick you battles here. Certainly push for the children to be allowed a phone call to you as and when they want. Ask for assurances your youngest has access to good healthcare if she needs it. Suggest an initial two weeks in case they are homesick. Or a flexible ticket so they can home earlier than 3 weeks. Hell fly over at the end of his time, pick them up and take them to Disney land.

The more you push against his role as a parent the higher the barriers he will put up. The more frustrated and anxious you will become.

@Parmaviolet1719 that is so tough, you have obviously be dealt a really shitty hand. I hope you don’t mind me saying this but I think given your own situation it is extremely important for the kids to have a very strong relationship with their father’s family as well as their father and also that they get as much time as possible with you. I think ensuring that the children get equal relationships with both parents does apply. He sounds like a shit bag but if you are in treatment and if the cancer is incurable then it is imperative that the bond between them is as strong as it can be and it is more important that they have really positive experiences with you while you are as well as you can be. Also I think a battle at this time will not serve any of you in any way especially you.

Your situation is truly heartbreaking.

I do want to pick my battles which is why I’m asking here, to get an idea of what is realistic and worth fighting for. I just can’t bend over and let him take whatever he wants if I don’t think it’s what best for the kids. He won’t ever be satisfied and stop there, he’ll just take more and more. I know I probably sound mad, but he’s an awful bully who is trying to ruin every aspect of my life. I wish I could fly over and take them anywhere, but he was the earner and left me with nothing. I’m living on benefits, I won’t be able to afford any of the things he’ll be doing with them.

And sorry but just to reply to another of your points. It won’t matter if they get homesick, he won’t bring them home. That’s what worries me so much. My eldest daughter has told me on several occasions that she asked to phone me while at his place but he says no. Hes going to the USA for Christmas this year and leaving them with me for more than a week and won’t speak to them while he’s gone, which they’re already upset about. (He doesn’t want to speak to them just to be clear; I’m not stopping him. I would always allow him to call if he wanted). There have been times when they’ve been upset with me and wanted to talk to him so I text and ask, and he just ignores me. He consistently does what he wants, regardless of how it affects them. That’s why I need a court agreement about how long he can take them and phone calls to me etc, because he won’t ever do something unless he has no choice legally.

Im so sorry you’re having to face this. I don’t have any experience of divorce but just wanted to post to say that I’m surprised about the responses.

I have an 11 and 8 year old and both I and they would struggle with 3 solid weeks apart, especially if there were no guarantees we could keep in touch with calls. I can’t imagine that I’d have felt ok with this at 7 and 4 with both additional needs and a potentially life limiting illness present.

I wonder if posting in legal may get any other responses? Your situation doesn’t feel typical and perhaps posters here have very different situations when their divorces were agreed.

Sending you best wishes.

It's good that you will be picking your battles, as not sure anyone has said 3 weeks without contact is ok.

You could reasonably suggest 10 days to 2 weeks initially, especially as this is a precedent set by your husband on trips home.
Working towards 3 weeks in the summer seems reasonable considering the distance to the home country, however you should fight for video calls/ contact regularly in this period. At least once every 5 days perhaps?

Also remember that your eldest will probably have access to a device relatively soon, on which they can keep in contact.

I think you should really push for court ordered phone/Facetime contact for times when the kids are with you ex for more than 3 or 4 days in a row. Get that set in stone. In court ask for the order to include times for UK and for whichever US timezone they are likely to visit, plus duration of calls.
I also think you might consider pushing for a court ordered description about what happens if or when your drs tell you you’re prognosis is only 6 months or so - He sounds like an arsehole who won’t necessarily be reasonable about taking the kids the see you regularly even on his time at the point.