How did you work out child maintenance amount?

[Coffee473]

My exH is throwing his toys out of the pram about maintenance and thinks the amount I have asked him for, using the government child
maintenance calculator here https://www.gov.uk/calculate-child-maintenance is too high.

According to him he’s “asked around” and most people don’t use that, they just use a figure that works for them. He also doesn’t think he needs to pay anything extra (such as cost of school dinners, uniform etc) despite the fact that he has them 3 nights a week.

For context, he is a very high earner (over £100k) so the amount is probably higher than a lot of people.

I have no idea who he has been asking, probably the various single mums he has dated. But just out of curiosity, if you are divorced/separated, how have you worked out the maintenance costs?

If he isn't willing to pay what you suggest and extras and you are unhappy with that, then unless you put up and shut up any civil relationship you have will break down anyway.

This is about what he should be paying as a minimum.

He doesn't sound like he is going to be willing to pay you what you are asking for anyway so it makes sense to go via the CMS.

If you can't agree then they are independent and to a degree that's why some of us have to use them. Myself included.

They are not the best and it has taken five years to get anything out of my ex. We couldn't agree what was correct so I went the CMS and let them decide.

He didn't agree but we are where we are. He's still hiding money but I'm getting a regular amount now I can budget against.

It's not half of what my child costs and he knows this.

It's better than nothing though

Why do you want to spend money to buy a extra set of school uniform, which the children will outgrow them soon?

Isn't it a waste of money?

That's because the calculations are made on the gross income and not after tax.

Plus being a higher earner = more tax.

The children are 14 and 12, they are not outgrowing stuff as quickly as they once did.

And how do you know that?

My younger son is 12 and he shot up within the last 6 months. He is taller than his mum now. I had to donate one pair of new trainers because he grew 2 sizes up.

Plus the OP can teach her kids to help her with the washing. Empty the pockets etc, operate the washing machine/tumble dryer.

My children do that.

My understanding is she is suggesting a set of uniform for their dad's house.

Of course, their dad can also teach them how to use the washing machine (why on earth have you concluded that they don't know?)

Just go via CMS but it will be one monthly payment with no added extras.

My ex is also a high earner (over 100K), we have one child and I get around £450 a month which he can easily afford. The amounts are not as much as you might imagine even for higher earners...extras like tuition aren't taken into account, my ex downright refuses to pay for that.

"Coffee473 · Today 10:32

@FSTraining I would like him to buy some school uniform so that he is responsible for it, rather than the DC running out or coming back here with dirty unwashed uniform. It’s about him taking some responsibility. Also, at the start of term I had to buy 2 pairs of school shoes, trainers and football boots, all in adult sizes. It’s a massive expense in one month."

Yes the dad can also teach them. The problem here is lack of civil communication between both the parents, with one demanding more money from the other.

£900+ pm is a lot of money and there are parents who get £7 pw/pm.

Plus it is the responsibility of BOTH the parents to share the costs.

I am sure your ex would have gladly paid for the tution if the CMS calculations were fair and based on the net income, rather the gross.

The problem is a lot of NRP's think the being a high earner means the NRP can take home more.

They all are conveniently forgetting about the tax bracket for high earners.

" would like him to buy some school uniform so that he is responsible for it,rather than the DC running out or coming back here with dirty unwashed uniform"

So... it seems it is the machine at the dad's house that the dad is not using.

We all understand about tax - I earn a similar amount to the ex here - but you seem to have some kind of bee in your bonnet about it. I have played enough chess with pigeons on MN today, so I won't interact with you again.

@LetsTryToHelp
A person earning £125k will take home more than someone earning £120k, regardless of the 60% tax trap. The tax rate would have to be >100% for your sentence to be factually correct.
Unless they are of course, putting the extra in a pension to avoid it.
That's their decision and a legal way to avoid the tax trap but no higher earner doing this requires sympathy from a NRP.
fyi CMS calculations used to use net income but the rates were higher. eg20% of net compared to 16% of gross minus pension

You’re still allowing yourself to be manipulated by a bully. He’s proven he can’t be reasonable with you so I suggest you stop direct contact with him

Go through CMS and ignore any correspondence from your ex about money. If he lets you down over the next few weeks and doesn’t have the kids when he says he’s going to, go back to CMS and get the amount increased. When he ‘hits the roof’ again, ignore him. You’re no longer his partner and he will continue to bully you for how ever long you allow this.

Honestly, it always baffles me that women allow their ex to continue to have this power over me, my ex wouldn’t dare because he’d honestly get no where. You can’t argue with a brick wall. I’d turn my phone off.

He's not going to offer a figure bigger than £950 so time to go to CMS and accept 950 and no extras. If he's like this now, what do you think it's going to be like chasing him for 50% of expenses? He will obviously try and get out of it OTT insist kids wear cheaper shoes etc. I would personally not be able to cope justifying each bill. "Why can't ds wear Primark trainers rather than Nike?" "Why can't dd wear a dress she has for prom?" Etc
He needs to pay for school dinners on his days. If he hasn't got a parent account for digital top ups then he needs to do that.
Sadly it sounds like you will need to rely on your kids to tell you when he's unavailable for his time. Not fair on the kids but if they know that he's going away or whatever then hopefully they will start sharing that so you can have dinner in etc

This is a common misconception. Actually the percentage a higher earner pays on their earnings over the basic rate threshold is lower. Similarly, there is a reason courts get involved at the point earnings reach around £150k, it's not a figure plucked from thin air. It's the point that the 45% rate applies.

Yes but the amount is negligible. They were take home about £1,650 a year more. If they have two children they will be expected to pay around £600 of that in maintenance.

It's a lot of money to some people but on that kind of income it's quite normal to question whether the extra stress is worth it for less than £100 extra a month. Before I became a trainee solicitor I could have earned more but I would only have seen about 20% of it and it just wasn't worth the stress.

Thanks everyone, this is some food for thought.
I think I will give up on asking him to pay for school dinners and uniform, and maybe even forget the tutor. I can cut down the hours and put for it all myself. Until relatively recently the DC were with me full time, it’s only in the last year he has moved closer and therefore asked to have the DC more, and all this has spiralled. I assumed if he has them more he should pay for things while they are with him, but maybe it’s a fight not worth having.

Regarding tax, I have always used his income after pension to do the calculation- a figure he gave me.

If it gets no better I will just go through CMS. Just wanted some reassurance that I am
actually in the right here using the CMS calculator.

You should because if you can't agree you are automatically accepting what he is offering with no discussion or compromise.

Whilst the CMS are crap it does give you something to budget against and it's an impartial service against what you both think is right.

Whilst they are with their dad he should be providing what they need but this is often not the case.

I can well remember sending each days outfits etc all ironed on hangars ready to wear and getting it all back scrunched up in a bag dirty clean wet dry all mixed together.

But if I didn't send the clothes I knew she'd end up in any old shit so there you go.

The cms is actually taking all the conversations about money out ..

whatever you think morally - legally he can pay cms minimum and then that’s it ..

take the cms route . It’s one less thing to discuss but don’t ask him for money for tutors / uniforms - he won’t give it to you and will just use it to create more drama.

I also do agree with pp .. My Ds went through a growth spurt .. All his clothes suddenly didn’t fit him .. it was expensive .

@FSTraining
"Yes but the amount is negligible. They were take home about £1,650 a year more. If they have two children they will be expected to pay around £600 of that in maintenance.

It's a lot of money to some people but on that kind of income it's quite normal to question whether the extra stress is worth it for less than £100 extra a month. Before I became a trainee solicitor I could have earned more but I would only have seen about 20% of it and it just wasn't worth the stress."

No one turns done a yearly pay rise because of "stress". Not all pay rises are linked to additional responsibilities. And also why would you have only seen 20% of a pay rise?? 60% tax trap+ 2% NI plus child maintenance?

If you put all of the pay rise into your pension, no extra maintenance and no extra tax.

Oh and the 45% tax rate kicks in at £125,140 now. £150k is sooo last year. Keep up!
The CMS taxable income ceiling is/was £!56k and so has never matched where the 45% tax rate kicks in

I'm only on about £40k now as a trainee but at the time I was offered a promotion and turned it down. I wouldn't have been the main beneficiary of the hours worked, HMRC would have been.

First there would have been 40% tax and 2% NI. Then there is the lost personal allowance as I was dead on £100k already. For every £1 you lose 50p personal allowance which is another 20p of tax in effect. Then I have three children on 1-2 nights which worked out at 12.5% of each extra £1 as maintenance leaving me with 25.5%. Plus in my case it would have meant being in London 5 days a week at a different office requiring tube tickets too, an extra expense of about £50 a month which also equated to about 6% of the payrise. So I was essentially looking at more commuting, longer hours and more stress for about 19.5% of the payrise. It just wasn't worth it. Plus my wife was annoyed enough when I took a massive paycut to become a solicitor (my salary will never recover because I've chosen to stop commuting and work in a regional firm); no point adding even more fuel to that fire.

@FSTraining
Sounds like you made the right decision given your circumstances at the time 🙂

@Marmight Ex-wife wasn't ecstatic about the drop in maintenance but it has immediately meant I can do much closer to 50/50 so she can work more and build her own career (not entirely sure she wants one but at least she has the freedom to have one)! And I'll be able to be local for the children going forwards. And my salary will probably reach 70% of what I was on so once you factor in commuting costs, tax and maintenance I was paying I won't really notice the lost income soon.

Sorry, FSTraining, are you a solicitor in training? I don't think you've said?!

🫣