Saving/pension since separation

[Captain1]

My ex and I separated two years ago, finally ready to address the divorce now due various issues.

we’ve got our first mediation on Saturday, she’s not happy about my pensions. I’ve had a pension up to 2018 which I’m happy to split. I also have a new pension I started in 2018 and have said I will split the value up to the separation (£87k.)she wants half the value of that pension now (£240k).

legally she may have a position on it but morally I’m appalled that’s I’ve been saving hard for two years to limit the damage to the original pension and now it’s all for nothing.

am I being selfish here or do I actually have a point!

No, you're not being selfish but this is why you should split finances as soon as possible. I take it she doesn't have her own pension. Could you agree to her having more of other assets if there are any instead of the pension? Choose your battles, sometimes easier to give in on something to get the job done and avoid a costly legal battle.

That's outrageous and grabby. I don't think a court would consider her position fair based on my own experience but take legal advice. What does your solicitor say about it?

I think it should be up until split day. That’s what me and my STBX have decided. That we parted on the day he move out and the finances shared up until then.

did you get a consent order drawn up? That’s what we did. Laying it all out and what is owed.

im planning on saving loads now that we are split and if STBX came to me asking for money just coz divorce hasn’t come through I’d be mad.

We not done anything since the split. I’ve been trying to nail her down for a figure but all she keeps saying is “ I want what I’m entitled to”.

I totally get that. my original pension has devalued quite a bit for various reasons and she was expecting more. She has her own pension (£120k) which I’ve said she can keep for herself.

as such my proposal now is:

house 50/50
my original pension (£310k) 50/50
her pension (£120k) 100% her
Debt (loans etc £26k) I keep
her car (£8k) she keeps ( I have a lease)
my pension 2018-2021 (£87k 50/50)
my pension 2021-now ( £153k) I keep

I know a lot depends on various other factors , but there you go. She’s 47 I’m 50 if it matters.

If she insists she wants what she is entitled to then all pensions including hers need to be included and all debt should be split.
Based on your figures it’s probably about the same as your proposal.

She'd be a fool not to accept that unless there are extenuating circumstances. I think that is very fair. Hopefully mediation will help her see this is a good offer.

What was the agreed percentage split of the total asset pool? It looks like you are working on 50:50. I am assuming if that is the case there are no children at home to consider and you both continue to work without her capacity to earn having been lessened by a period of staying home to look after children? You don’t normally negotiate on an asset by asset basis for the percentage split, you do negotiate on how it is going to be distributed.

That aside if that is the way you are both looking at it with her 120k pension and the 13k of debt she is being relieved of she ends up in effect with 133k. With your newer pension being 153k if she got half of that she would have 143k so the difference in dispute is 10k. Once you get the difference whittled down to a relatively small amount I always ask clients how much lawyers’ time they think that would buy if they can’t reach an agreement. Some people would rather the lawyers get it all rather than agreeing to something they feel is unfair, others will look at ways to compromise to get an outcome.

As @Idontgiveagriffindamn says it sounds like the obvious solution is to say fine but you’ll take half of hers then.

It is impossible to determine whether this is a fair offer or represents what your ex is entitled to. What is missing is

1. How you have arrived at these figures as a true representation of your joint assets? Has she agreed that they are, doesn’t seem to be the case.
2. Why you are using a 50/50 split sometimes and not at others?
3. What are your respective needs? The default to 50:50 on equity implies you both have the same income but you don’t mention that. The pension disparity implies the opposite.

I think you have gotten a bit ahead of yourself. If you haven’t done anything for two years and are only about to start mediation then you are not at nailing down a figure stage.

I think you pushed for a quick answer and she rightly gave you a no. There are stages you need to go through to be completely assured that the settlement is fair. And you need to go through those stages individually and together. She hasn’t told you no, she has told you she wants to go through the stages. Which is what most people are advised to do.

Why after 2 years do you need a speedy decision? Because if it is obvious you have a need to do it quickly that is leverage to her to ask for more and get it. The answer to a quick ask is generally going to be no or yes but you will pay for it.

Go to mediation with a clear head. Leave the morally appalled at the door because she is just being sensible in wanting to follow the processes and stages before she says yes to anything.

Agree with above posters that all 3 pensions should be included in the pot with all assets and debts.
I also understood that generally the percentage split of assets is worked out, according to future need etc, rather than each individual asset being split, so one may have a higher propertion of house value but in return a lower proportion of pension.

Yep, sorry threads drifting a bit I guess the main thrust was the original question,”should she get half of what’s been accumulated since the split”.

And the moral answer is no
the legal answer is possibly if there are needs that can only be met by bringing those in

Go for half of her pension as well. Why wouldn’t you?

The answer is you might have a point but you are yet to demonstrate it to her which is what she has told you.

Absolutely not unless there is some reason she's in significant dire need of more money to live a basic lifestyle and is unable to work and provide for herself, which judging by her own pension pot is not the case. Your offer seems more than fair. What's her rationale for demanding even more when you are willing to let her have more than 50% of the assets in the marriage at the time of the split, take on the debts and leave her pension pots untouched?

Are there dependent children involved? And if so, how will residency be split? Outside that it's difficult to see any justification for her demands. What does your solicitor say?

Why don’t you fight it? You are obviously not short of money. Not sure why you are giving her more really?

She hasn’t said no to anything. They haven’t done mediation. Just because she hasn’t agreed to the first offer he makes isn’t her being demanding. She is being sensible and waiting until she has complete information.

Thanks everyone for input slight update on what I’m proposing now.

No children involved. She’s earns £40pa I earn £150k pa.

house split 50/50 leaving her £350k cash
pension split as of separation giving her pension of £150k plus her original one so £270k.

she’s is asking for the pension as cash not pension share as apparently £350k “is not enough to buy a house”.

as such I’ve offered her £100k cash instead of £150k pension share. (See my thread on the difference between £100k tax free cash and £100k in pension, frozen for 20 years and taxable, same amount but different value)

she’s now saying £450k is not enough to buy a house and wants spousal maintenance as well!

advice? Am I being reasonable?

not really relevant but she’s the one who left for someone else so shouldn’t be any “jealously/envy/revenge” issues.

You have been very reasonable and I can understand your frustration at her grabbiness over your current pension contributions after the split. I think the solution is very easy. If she insists you share yours just demand that she splits her 120k with you.
Seems fair and equal that you play by the same rules to divide assets.

Still thrashing this out.

shes now asking for all pension assets up to today to be considered. Which at 50/50 means she’s wants £200k (as I’m still saving hard into my pensions) which is the value of all pensions split. She’s wants it as cash as says she will take £175k.

if we use the values when we split (2 years ago) then the pension split is around £150k and I offered her the full amount in cash.

even if I take the higher value £200k in pension is not worth anything like £175k in tax free cash.

if I give in the final split will be:
cash from house £525 her £175 me
her pension £120k
my pension £524k

So that 699k to me
and £645k to her
although hers is lower she has it in tax free cash and I have to wait 20 years to get my pension and it will be taxed at 40%. Plus I will need to borrow more to buy a house so will have interest charges on a mortgage for the next 15 years.

So should I agree to this?

No
take it to court

It'll cost more if you go to court. I'd agree and get closure.

I wouldn’t
but that’s me

unbalanced and all risk is on op

do you have a solicitor op?

I wouldn’t agree to this and I think court is going to be your best option. Taking half your pensions, keeping her own? Plus suggesting spousal maintenance? She’s trying to rinse you financially. She is a single woman who only has herself to consider so she is being unreasonable. 50/50 on the house and retaining a greater proportion of my own pensions is what I would be aiming for if I was you. Because there are no children.