Christmas Arrangement - what’s reasonable??

[MyGirl88]

My husband left me for another woman around 6 months ago. It is what it is, and I’m doing my best to keep up my husbands and daughters (age 2) relationship.
I can’t work out what’s reasonable or not anymore when there’s so many emotions involved so any input is appreciated.

My husband doesn’t live somewhere that allows children after moving out, so can only see our daughter at our house every few days. He has lots of demands and it feels like he expects me to bend over backwards for everything he wants. He has a wonderful family in Ireland and takes our daughter over to visit them whenever he gets a chance, which I think is great for her, even though it’s hard to spend long periods of time apart.
He has just told me he wants to take our daughter to Ireland for the whole Christmas period. I can’t bare the thought of not seeing my 2 year old at all, but I don’t want to break down any relationships. Is his request reasonable?
divorces with children involved are just hard!

That's a lot to ask. My ex and I try to accommodate each other as much as possible but the whole of the Christmas period overseas neither would be happy with. Could he not take them for a few days before or after and share Christmas Day?

I guess it’s complicated as he would have nowhere in the UK to take her. My family live a couple of hours away, so if we decided to split the day, our daughter would miss out on seeing all the family, whether on his side or mine. It would be the most fair on me, but not sure on her in the long run. Does it make a difference that she’s so young? Or better to just get used to it now?
He’s showing me at the moment that he’s not the most reasonable person, it just doesn’t seem fair that he gets to make the demands and I miss out. But perhaps I’m not seeing it in the right light yet as it’s all pretty fresh. Thanks for the response! It is tough!

Absolutely not. He doesn't get to dictate in your own home when he sees her, or gets to unilaterally decide to take her away for the whole Christmas holidays. There is a difference between accomodating and being a doormat. He wants to sound time with his daughter, great- but not at your home. He's chosen to live somewhere she can't be, it's up to him to find somewhere safe and warm she can be. Christmas holidays should be split, what kind of time off do you both have?

He is asking a lot. Could he take her before Christmas so 22-26th and you have her Boxing Day and the New Year and then next year swap? This is what we do with my husbands daughter just so there's not lots of back and forth on Christmas Day.

Just trying to get the balance right. I have said this to him but he somehow believes it’s my fault he’s got nowhere to go now. Anyhow, that’s another story…
We’ll both be off for the week between Xmas and new year.

It would be a no from me. He can collect her on Boxing Day if he can get transport to Ireland, or as soon as possible after then.

Like hell would I allow my toddler to be away from me, let alone at Christmas.

How long does he usually take her away for?!

You need to stand your ground, he is taking the piss.

Perhaps I could put this to him. I guess it’ll also depend on flights on Boxing Day, but it sounds like a potential idea. Kind of wish there was something obvious, but it’s just getting used to idea of not being around my little one at that special time. Hoping it gets easier!

At what age do you think IS reasonable to be away for longer?

He’s taken her to Ireland for almost a week, and she really enjoyed herself. The family really are great, and all get involved. This just feels different.

He’s the type that will throw his toys out the pram when I say no. Trust me, I’ve said no to another thing which was a CRAZY ask, and he acted far worse than a toddler. Mad to think that until the day he left me he seemed like a level headed guy!

He is a good dad though, and I’m happy he wants to keep up the relationship with his daughter. He’s just a bit naive to how things overall are changing now.

We have been dealing with this for the past 18 yrs since DSS was 3. It’s every other year Christmas Day. The parent who doesn’t get Christmas Day gets Boxing Day …. We have never had a situation when one parent gets both days

So this is the first christmas since he left you for another woman and he thinks your daughter shouldn't see her mum at all over christmas but spend it all with his wonderful self.

The ego and sense of entitlement is big in that one.

I would say no. Offer a reasonable compromise - xmas eve to lunchtime xmas day or something like that. Not fecking off to Ireland for a week leaving you without your daughter. Jesus the cheek of him.

His accommodation problems are his - not yours. Seeing her at your home is not good either. If he still has an interest in the house, try to sort that out as soon as you can.

If he kicks off - well he kicks off. he is going to sooner or later. If you are still friendly with his relatives in Ireland I would have a chat saying "sean asked to bring dd back to Ireland for the whole of christmas but of course that would be desperately unfair to me and dd not to see her mam at all so we are working on a compromise"

Oh and he probably wants to bring her to Ireland because Ireland is great craic for him at xmas and he doesn't want to stay in the UK for any part of it and miss it.

If it wasn’t in Ireland I feel this would make sense, but his Christmas’ at home are there. Before we split up we would alternate between my family and his, so I guess that’s what will continue happening. But unfortunately it seems it’ll have to be longer than a day as looking at flights they’re either first thing in the morn at 6am, meaning my DD would have to be up in the middle of the night which doesn’t seem fair on her at this age, or in the eve, in which case we wouldn’t spend Boxing Day together anyhow. At least she would be home for new years which is something!!

Thanks for this, it’s really useful to hear that my natural feelings towards all this are normal.

But this is not before the split. it is after the split. Life has changed. I don't mean it as a punishment for him but when he decided to leave his wife for another woman, life changed for everyone. It is no longer a given that your dd will spend every second xmas in Ireland for a full week. Life has changed.

Say "no that won't work for me. I have no intention of spending the entire of xmas week not seeing dd. I'm sure you'd feel the same. we'll need to figure out something else"

He is no longer in your corner OP. You have to be in your corner for you and your dd.

And honestly, I'm blown away by the cheek and callousness of someone who thinks not only will the week in Ireland week in UK continue for all the christmasses from now on but it should start in Ireland the year your life has been torn apart and he blew up his marriage. Does he have even an iota of feeling for you? Does it occur to him that it might upset you not to see your 2 year old for the entire of christmas? Is he thick or just horrible? If he were my son and he told me he was bringing his 2 year old to Ireland for christmas for a week without her mother, I'd think he had gone mad.

Having to get flights makes it tricky.

Maybe she goes with him 24th and you get her back Boxing Day evening and have her from 27th all though New Year.

Next year you have her Christmas Eve until he picks her up on 27th through New Year in Ireland.

He's got a cheek making all of these demands when he created this.

He’s cheated and left you and thinks he can also dictate Christmas.

no thank you, take control, you have her Christmas and he has her after!

he was the one that decided to break up the family relationship so he doesn’t get to decide this first Christmas.

don’t agree to him having her before Christmas as he probably wouldn’t bring her home until after.

Maybe she goes with him 24th and you get her back Boxing Day evening and have her from 27th all though New Year.

So the christmas after her husband leaves her for another woman, the OP doesn't see her dd open santa presents, go to church, whatever? The guy who left his wife for another woman gets to do that instead. The very first year. Come on - maybe that is a plan next year but this year?

And I can guarantee that if OP wants her dd back on the 26th next year, she will be travelling to Ireland to get her. the ex won't be going back to the UK before he has to. He is having his christmas in Ireland with his family and friends.

I'm Irish and so understand your ex and wanting to get home. I also lived in England for a while. However, this would be a hard no from me. Your child lives England/wales/Scotland, he doesn't get to take them on holidays for the Christmas period. He made that choice when he had a child with you and then proceeded to leave. If he wants access over Christmas he unfortunately for him has to give up travelling home to Ireland. He can decide between seeing his daughter or his family. If I was being very kind I'd let him take her day after boxing day to New Years as you don't really miss out much on those days anyway. But I wouldn't blame you at all if you even said no to that. If he stayed you could let him visit Christmas morning, begrudgingly but for benefit of your daughter and hand over Christmas evenning to be back boxing evening or something. But a hard no to Ireland for a week. Also confusing when she starts to understand santa and trying to transport gifts back and forth. Start off as you mean to go on. Don't give that man an inch he will take a mile.

Separated parents tend to do alternate years so this is where you're heading OP.

I would allow him to take her - it sounds like it will be good to have the extended family celebration so makes for a great break for her.

I'd celebrate your own Christmas Day with her either side of this.

Plus, she's only 2 - Christmas will be far better for you next year when she is 3.

The situation isn't ideal, it never is but his circumstances are slightly different and you must accommodate this.

The fact that he has had an affair is completely irrelevant.

I am completely amazed at the women telling OP she must not see her DD for a week over christmas because ... what? Must accommodate a man who lives in the UK but likes to spend xmas in Ireland so when he splits the family this must continue?

And equally amazed that the fact he had an affair is completely irrelevant. It is (we hope) irrelevant to his relationship with his daughter but it is not irrelevant to the arrangements for the first christmas after he shattered his family by going off with another woman. Are your really saying that OP should suck up not seeing her 2 year old for an entire week of christmas because "well you can have a great time with your own family and next year will be better because 3 year olds are better at christmas than 2 year olds" what the actual fuck?

By the way will this other woman be in Ireland for christmas week celebrating with OP's dd?

No fucking way!

He chose to leave the relationship. He doesn’t get to take your daughter for the whole Christmas period.

You should try to decide now how you would like to split Christmas going forward because, unfortunately, that is the reality.

Would you prefer to split Christmas Day and New Year or one parent has Christmas, the other has New Year? You’ll likely end up alternating so make sure you are happy with all options.

But I think you are entirely justified in insisting that what you get what you want this (first) Christmas.

It would be a hard no from me. He left you and your daughter for another woman, which means he was cheating on you.

I'd also stop facilitating visits at your home if he's trying to control you in your own home.

I hope you have legal advice; if not, get some. And get a visitation schedule in place that's fair. Him taking her when he wants, where he wants isn't fair, especially for the entire first Christmas.

He chose this situation, not you, by cheating on you and then leaving. He doesn't get to call all the shots now.

The OP herself says that DD really enjoys herself and that the family she great and very involved. For me, this is a positive. Yes, it's not ideal that they are not down the road but in my experience with DC (who have exDHs family 7 hours away) it is important to them to keep the extended family ties - even if this includes Christmas.

Yes, he's shattered his family by having an affair. No denying that - I've been there myself with DC aged 4 and 6 and it's truly shit (and I hope you're doing ok OP). It's MY opinion that I'd rather have a Christmas with a DC that was actually aware of what was going on on Christmas Day, which at 3 this is more likely than 2. That way I'd bite the bullet and await my turn.

When I say the affair is irrelevant, when making decisions that involve the DC, the reasons for the breakdown of the relationship should be when it comes to contact.

Honestly I find it hard to believe a 2-year-old
is being taken away her primary carer for a week at a time because a grown man can’t get his shit together enough to provide a home where she is able to be cared for for a more reasonable period of time on a regular basis (2-3 nights tops every week-10 days.

Being away from my toddler for a week during the first Christmas after a split (or frankly any Christmas before she was a teen) would be an absolute hard no from me. If I hadn’t initiated the split I would be even less inclined to be accommodating of my ex trying to put himself first.