When do we tell the kids?

[margaretatwoodslefteyebrow]

Hi everyone,
Married for 11 years, together for 15. Agreed amicably to separate in March. Neither of us can afford to stay in the family home ourselves and I also want us both to have decent homes. Kids are 9,7 and 5. We are preparing the house to go on the market, bit of painting etc. However obviously the market is on its knees. It could take a while for ours to sell (large 4 bed detached worth around £600k) and find 2 x 3 beds to buy. This obviously won't all neatly happen together either. We had planned to wait until we had some interest in the house prior to unsettling the children and letting them know about the separation. Our 5 year old still asks most days if its her birthday soon (January) so the whole idea of introducing an indefinite period of instability which is hard for them to understand was something we wanted to keep as short as possible.
However, we haven't started the divorce process yet and I am keen to do this to ensure, however amicable, that we are smart and have it neatly settled that when either/both of us buys a new place it is not classed as a marital asset. The idea of having a divorce finalised and then telling them seems really deceptive to me? I acknowledge that we are being deceptive at the moment but I can justify that as per the above about the fact that we could put our house on the market and it not sell for a year. Neither of us could afford to move out whilst paying the mortgage. I feel deeply uncomfortable in getting a divorce finalised without telling them. I hate lying to them as it is. We are getting along ok in the main at home and whilst there are times of stress/tension we don't argue in front of the kids and are still taking holidays together/spending time together as a family. I just don't know what order to do things in.
I thought we had it planned in the best way and now I'm not sure. It feels it wouldn't be smart to buy houses whilst we are not divorced. (Financial/custody split is very simple so intending to do it as DIY as possible. Any advice/experiences on similar would be great. Thank you in advance.

Might want to get this moved to relationships?

Im so sorry everyone i follow this and the divorce topic and meant to post there - I will try and get it moved
Pls ignore in this thread!!!!!!!!

This is now in the right topic! Thanks!

This is now in the right place, please do respond if you can.

Bumping - really keen to hear views!

Imho, do NOT tell the kids until you have firm plans about your future lives including where you will both live , custody in terms of how you’ll parent, who’s responsible for what, when they go to each of you, Christmas, birthdays etc
without you being able to answer those question, or even anticipate and tell them this small shit, there will be a vacuum of the unknown. And the unknown produces fear and anxiety.

yes, it’s bloody difficult for the adults to put on the brave and calm and normal face when all the shit is going on, but you can’t release yourselves from this burden without dumping a shit of anxiety onto your kids.

wait until you can answer the obvious things that kids want to know. It’s fine saying a few “we don’t know yet but we’ll be figuring that outs soon” but not the majority or the key ones- they might not need to know the exact house they’ll be living in but they need to know areas, bedroom arrangements, when they’ll see dad,when they’ll see mum, what’ll happen at Christmas, birthdays, who’ll look after them during school hols, who’ll they’ll go on any holidays with, who’ll take them swimming/soccer/ballet etc . Will they still go to same schools

I should add, even though our “kids” were in mid twenties, left home etc, we didn’t tell them until we’d agreed the outcome and financial settlement and made decisions where we would live. We then told them together over a Skype where we could see them and the, see us, said it was a joint decision (it wasn’t- I divorced under unreasonable behaviour on his part but it wouldn’t have helped me or kids to have told them that)
my marriage and reason why we couldn’t make it work are not something to burden any child with - even as adults, unless and until they ask. In which case they’ll get the truth.

Just wanted to comment on the point you made about feeling deceptive not telling kids until after divorce. My ex-DH and I properly separated in January and he's been living in the house he bought with his half of the equity since then.

we actually started the divorce process last summer, and when we told the kids the we were separating in Jan we didn't mention 'divorce' since then that process has all been finalised but the kids (13&10) haven't asked and I haven't mentioned it. I've worked on the basis that divorce is just a legal formality and what matters to them is the practicality of their lives. And I've been really open and clear with them about that.

Thank you both 💓 @Appleofmyeye2023 yes we already have all those plans sorted in terms of days, holidays, Christmas, birthdays and the locations of where we will both be living (I will stay in the village or next one along and he will move no further than 10 mins away in places that are fairly familiar in that we drive through them all th time or even stay in the village if he can) even if we aren't quite in a position to look at houses yet.
@PilchardsonToast thank you that does make me feel better. Everyone wants to be honest with their kids don't they. Our kids are aware of divorce and so it's likely they will ask but perhaps not. I'm just concerned about how long it is that we will know its happening when it could be up to a year before we come to tell them but I guess as @Appleofmyeye2023 says that's not for them to know unless they ask at some point in the future at which hopefully they will understand. We are separating in unusual circumstances and it will likely be pretty obvious why it is happening sadly even though we will stick to a very simple message of mutual decision and of course make it clear it is nothing to do with them.

You don’t tell them anything until you know what is going to happen:

1. where will they live
2. where will the other parent live
3. what is the contact pattern? (You both need to decide for them, don’t put the decision on their young shoulders, it is soul destroying for

whatever you do, don’t sit them down to formally deliver the news, talk to them while you are immersed in another activity, the less formal the talk is and the more solid the info it provides, the easier it would be for the kids to adapt.

@ForTheSakeOfThePenguin it's more when then how that's the issue. We know the answers to all those questions. It's more the timing ref when to tell them vs when it will actually happen because of the house market at the moment?

The when is when you know every detail. What hurts them more is not the change, it is the uncertainty.

There is a book I highly recommend that is called Putting Children First which is a manual for separated parents put together by a charity that especialices in helping parents to parent effectively together in separate settings. Their advice is not to make an “event” of delivering the news but telling them casually while they are doing other things to remove the drama and help them feel comfortable with asking any questions.

What happens when your house goes on the market though? Will neighbours or school parents ask questions? You don't want them hearing rumours. Or are you assuming you will tell them before that point?

@ForTheSakeOfThePenguin that's great thank you!

@User5653218 unfortunately neighbours/school parents, if they are interested, will probably have been gossiping about my family for about 6 months wondering if we will stay together or not which isn't easy to live with. Havent heard anything via the kids only directly from people themselves as yet.

@ForTheSakeOfThePenguin there are quite a few with that title, which would you recommend?

This one, I have found it invaluable: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Guide-Separated-Parents-Putting-Children/dp/074994000X/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=3O29447A4A2RA&keywords=the+guide+for+separated+parents+putting+children+first&qid=1688229208&sprefix=putting+children+first%2Caps%2C83&sr=8-1

Brilliant @ForTheSakeOfThePenguin thanks 😊

Side question but curious. How much equity have you in the house that you'll be able to each buy a 2 - 3 bedroom & individually get a mortgage, presumably you are both in your 40s?

Is this a definite or a hope?

I ask because when trying to buy my ex out of our house, I could technically get a mortgage to do so but because I have 3 DC, these counted as 'black marks' in terms of scoring & maintenance payments are not included so actually I was turned down. I've had to come up with an alternative less satisfactory and more costly solution.

In terms of telling them, absolutely when the key practicalities are sorted. For example, you've properly agreed finance / maintenance & before you actively go about selling obviously.

Finally, be careful not to over-emphasise (in your own mind) the amicable nature of it all. Not my own experience (very awful) but some other couples, it was amicable till the small details were being agreed & then it wasn't, at least for a time.

@EarringsandLipstick we are pretty fortunate. We have £370k equity of which £235k is mine and £135k. Plus it may go for more than £600k as that is just a rough value prior to an extension. We had £100k inheritance injection which is protected by trust to go back to my parents in the event of a sale which they would then reinvest in my next place. We both earn about £60k and both work full time so are in a fortunate position. There won't be any maintenance anyway initially as he wants 50/50 and we have a separate account for all the kids stuff. The only personal debt I have is £140 a month on a loan for the degree I'm doing. We've already split finances apart from the house (divided savings into personal accounts) and we will keep our own pensions. I've been cautious and exhaustive with my budget and should be OK for a decent 3 bed, he may have to compromise more on area/size/state of his.
In terms of amicability, I appreciate the note of caution. You are right we never know what might turn best intentions sour. Despite him being the party that has made choices that have driven this change, he is also the one most likely to change his approach and things may well go south longer term.

We had £100k inheritance injection which is protected by trust to go back to my parents in the event of a sale which they would then reinvest in my next place. Make sure this doesn't happen until everything is signed off by the court. If you buy before then and they put that money into your house before the financial split is approved by court then he could come back and try to claim that money is part of the martial assets.

Plan what you can but it doesn't always work out. I messed up and DD found out so we had to tell her meer days after we split. Then we felt we needed to tell the others. I think I would have wanted to tell them before we started mediation as I really don't know how Stbxh is going to react. I don't expect it'll stay amicable and I wanted to tell them in a calm way.

As it is stbxh is planning to buy and move out before we get a chance to sort any of it. We need to sell our house before I can buy elsewhere and where I can buy depends on a few factors so we couldn't actually finalise it all before telling them. Friends have told soon after, one basically had the break up and she moved out with DC a week later. What you're planning ideally is what I'd like to have done but best intentions and all that, it might not work out the way you hope.

The idea of having a divorce finalised and then telling them seems really deceptive to me?

It's what we're doing. If it's wrong I'll let you know. I am actually more worried about our elderly parents fretting, and kids can't keep secrets from the oldies, so I want a grand reveal when basically everything is done. My kids are teens & adults so different calculus. Problem with little ones is they will assume the change is instant, so another reason to delay. We just told one adult (dependent) DC and they aren't unhappy at us for keeping it quiet so long.

I also wanted as much certainty as possible before telling everyone. A grand reveal and we'd have answers to their big worries & questions.

Timeline below for an amicable split, btw, because I couldn't find this ANYWHERE when we started (months ago) is like this

day 0: you jointly file the initial permission form, £593 to pay
week 20 (after above) : get asked to confirm want to divorce, both must confirm
about week 23: plan to divorce read in court, get conditional certificate that allowed to D .... (make final financial arrangements, probably need solicitor help to do the financial consent form) ...
about week 31: allowed to apply for final split, pay more money to courts, £59 ?
about week 37 weeks: if no objections by court to previous, finally formal split.

So even if you file tomorrow, you should expect a 36-40 week process to get through. 9-10 months. Longer if the courts disagree with your initial plan. Because little kids would think the change was instant, I would be minded to wait to tell them. We are at week 28 btw.

@EliflurtleTripanInfinite thanks, I was considering keeping the money in trust so that it was protected and that might be a way to go but you are right we need to get on with the divorce to protect us both in terms of the marital assets issue. STBEH has no idea about the process and as with the rest of the mental load it won't have even occurred to him to look at all this. He's fairly practical though and was fine with my parents money being put in trust for our house sale, not offended that it was a protection in case we split, so I'm hoping he will be the same about getting on with the divorce which is the sensible thing to do before we are in a position to buy our own places.

@peanutbutterkid thanks so much, this is sooo helpful. It sounds like we are on the same wavelength. Our parents do already know. The whole thing has been really traumatic for my parents. They relocated 2 years ago having lived in the same place all their lives to be near us and spend more time with the kids. They feel really betrayed by my STBEH that what they bought into in terms of their vision of spending time together as a whole family and him being part of the support into their elderly years (they are 78 and 70). They're really supportive of me and the kids but really hurt by it all.

See if this might help https://iamlip.com/speaking-to-your-children-about-your-divorce/ it's mainly about how to talk to them about it, I used some of the tips myself. Sometimes its difficult to know when the time is right, but yes like the other comment says - make sure you have the answers you need for most of the questions they'll ask like where they'll live, where you and other parent will be etc.