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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

Can we start the divorce proceeding without asking our teen kids yet, who they want to live with?

68 replies

Unloved1 · 09/05/2023 15:24

Kids are age 14 and 18. (I also have a 10 yr old, we arent asking him as hes too young so hes staying with me)

Hubby saying that we cant start it till we know who is living with who?

Thanks

Situation...hubby gambled throughout our 10 yr marriage and ive asked him for a divorce as trust is long gone and he lied too

OP posts:
Pallisers · 09/05/2023 18:10

If I were in your situation I wouldn't ask my children to decide. I would say "we are getting a divorce. DS will live with me and I really hope that you 2 will also decide to mostly live with me. Of course you are old enough to be part of this decision and also you will be able to go back and forth but I think the 4 of us will live together very happily" And I'd watch very carefully for what bullshit guilt trip he might lay on the older two - leaving a 14 year old living with a man who is out gambling every night.

You are leaving him because he is a gambler. you can't live with it. Why would you let your teenage children live with it?

AMuser · 09/05/2023 21:21

Justsaying22 · 09/05/2023 16:10

There is no box on the divorce petition in relation to who the children are going to live with. The divorce petition is very much separate to child arrangements.

Exactly this. In fact unless you end up having court ordered child access arrangements - the court doesn’t get involved in who lives where and for how many days per week etc.

Original poster
Unloved1 · 10/05/2023 09:18

@AMuser right. Its the financial order that he was talking about. It ask the box for me to apply for it for either myself or the children. So if i agree now, it can be made by consent (court sign it?) If no, then the court will decide.

So thats why he want to ask the kids

OP posts:
AmandaHoldensLips · 10/05/2023 09:26

He is an incapable and irresponsible parent. Keep your kids with you - particularly the 14 year old. Otherwise he will dump all the domestic responsibilities on her and leave her to raise herself while she is with him.

The 18 year old will decide for herself, but better for her to stay with you too.

Original poster
Unloved1 · 10/05/2023 09:35

@AmandaHoldensLips that is exactly what i told my mum about my eldest would end up being his housemaid.

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Original poster
Unloved1 · 10/05/2023 09:38

@AmandaHoldensLips but how can i keep the 14 y o with me? As its not down to me or is it?? As court wont get involved. As me and xhubby will be talking to them together this Friday. I will still be telling him not to put the kids on the spot but its the box that we both need to fill in.

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SleepingStandingUp · 10/05/2023 09:45

How long ago did you decide to split op? It seems odd to me that you're pushing o with a divorce but the kids think you're still together?

determinedtomakethiswork · 10/05/2023 09:47

Pallisers · 09/05/2023 18:10

If I were in your situation I wouldn't ask my children to decide. I would say "we are getting a divorce. DS will live with me and I really hope that you 2 will also decide to mostly live with me. Of course you are old enough to be part of this decision and also you will be able to go back and forth but I think the 4 of us will live together very happily" And I'd watch very carefully for what bullshit guilt trip he might lay on the older two - leaving a 14 year old living with a man who is out gambling every night.

You are leaving him because he is a gambler. you can't live with it. Why would you let your teenage children live with it?

I agree with this. It would be ridiculous for them to live with him and I think this is based on finances on his part. In his mind, he probably thinks you will pay child maintenance and he'll have more money for gambling. You'd end up with a situation where the children didn't have money for food.

I think it's really important the children stay together. I would tell them that and tell them they could see their dad whenever they wanted.

Original poster
Unloved1 · 10/05/2023 10:03

@SleepingStandingUp sorry its a little bit long

between us we've offically split up over 2 weeks ago, he wont move out as at first i said we need to separate, him to move out (cos he caused the problem) and for me to figure out if i want to carry on with our marriage.....this problem been going on for the past 10 years, it been eating away at me cos of his broken promises (i finally caught him in the bookies, he didnt know, then i asked him why his van was there, he said he was working, i saw him sat and playing the fruit machine, i said youre a liar) so from that day, i say myself down and thought why are we both in this unhappy relationship as he not bothered to take me out for the past 6 years, he even said a few times 'i cant be arse!' Before, he used to play pool 2-3 times a week now its 5 - times, so he make an effort to take himself out.

I stayed for the sake of the kids so im done...burnt out. I was so depressed and soooo stressed cos of him spending. It his work bank that he uses to spend, not ours.

I think the 2 eldest knows something is up since this year as we barely talk to each other apart from kids and the sale of our house. Ive slept with him about a handful of times in the past 5 years. He sleeps on the couch cos our new expensive mattress is not good for his back but its perfect for me but weve had no money to buy another mattress.

So it been a long time coming as he gambled when i moan which is no excuse. I cant carry on prentending everything is great.

OP posts:
Original poster
Unloved1 · 10/05/2023 10:08

@determinedtomakethiswork well thats a worry ive got the finance side of it, would he provide them properly or be spending it??

As what you said, that i should tell them that they shouldnt be apart and could see their Dad whenever they wanted. Should i tell them that when hes not there or is there? As he want to know this Friday so he can tick the box for the financial order.....i dont want to put that pressure on them

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Original poster
Unloved1 · 10/05/2023 10:10

If he doesnt agree them living with me then i will have to sort out a mediator now

OP posts:
ElfDragon · 10/05/2023 10:15

Do your dc know about your H’s issues?

if he is insisting on making them choose (I don’t think this is a good idea, and certainly not on the spot), then they need to know what choice they are actually making, and need some (appropriately phrased) information in what life might be like with their dad (should they choose to live there).

WheelsUp · 10/05/2023 10:16

He is very unreasonable to expect an answer on Friday. The 14 year old needs time to think and digest things.
Is it a gambler's mentality that any decision can be made on the spot? Makes you wonder how much thought he puts into the big decisions in his life.

Original poster
Unloved1 · 10/05/2023 10:23

@ElfDragon i dont think the kids knows about xhubbys issues right now. My eldest knows that i despised gambling as she spotted her Dad in the bookies as she said "My mum would not be happy about that". i found it in her diary about 4 yrs ago. I didnt question it aa its obvious.

@WheelsUp i agree.

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millymollymoomoo · 10/05/2023 10:28

I absolutely don’t think either of you should directly put them on the spot and ask them who they want to lic with. Terrible

i do think you could say something along the lines of :

we think you should live with mum, and stay with dad x times but we understand that it should be flexible and a strict pattern won’t be what either of you want. It’s important for us to ensure you are both happy and your wishes heard. Nothing needs to be decided now and can change over time

VegetablesFightingToReclaimTheAubergieneEmoji · 10/05/2023 10:29

He can’t tell them and expect an immediate answer.
if it’s 50/50 surely it’s a moot point anyway?

and yes this is him throwing his toys out his pram about asserting his rights, and financial gain.

go and see a solicitor, you might find one that can see you after work hours. you’ll honestly feel a weight lifted from his bullshit.

LittleOwl153 · 10/05/2023 10:54

Financially he will have to pay you 11% of his salary, post pension pre tax, for the youngest going up to 14% if you have the 14yr old too - but reduced if they spend regular overnights with him. (Take a look at the cms calculator online. You can do this with an estimate of his salary without saving any details) By the sounds of it that is the most you will get out of him. And that is assuming he's employed and not self employed - in which case I'd plan for getting nothing.

In terms of who lives with who. The 18yr old will not be counted sadly as she will be expected to pay her own way. He'll be wanting the other 2 at least 50/50 as that way he will be aiming for a 50/50 on assets such as the house (assuming you own it). If the kids stay with you then you'd be likely looking at a greater share to be able to adequately house them because you'd need 3 bedrooms - he'd then only need 1-2.

I'd actually wait until after you've closed your business to file as you'd then be filing as unemployed which means you pay a reduced fee depending of course in your assets.

I'd be careful about a 50/50 split on the older 2. It is currently a nightmare for my niece who is doing GCSEs currently and having to lump her revision between 2 spaces - clear her walls of notes etc each time. She's really struggling as a result and is probably putting in more time revising as a result. Her parents have been split 3 years and not having a secure home space has been really hard on her and her younger sister.

In terms of legal custody - then I think Joint is the right answer as this just means he has a say over school/medical etc as a parent - not that they have to live with him 50/50. You probably also want to get a 'lives with' order which will enable you to take them (the 10 and 14) on holiday etc without his specific permission.

Oh and there is a provision about paying towards university which you need to look into for a financial order.... otherwise he could 'disown' them financially leaving all that cost to you.

CornishGem1975 · 10/05/2023 10:57

The childcare aspect comes separately. Our kids didn't even know we had started divorce proceedings until we were about 3 months down the line.

AmandaHoldensLips · 10/05/2023 11:24

I think it pays to be honest with your children. Particularly your daughters as they are that bit older and will already have witnessed far more than you would imagine.

Addicts (including gamblers, drinkers, etc) cause untold damage and destroy lives.

Your children need to know that it is okay to choose to end a relationship with an addict. They may need counselling. Your younger 2 can probably access this via school. In any event, it would be sensible to speak to the school about what is going on so that they know.

You can tell them that you think it would be better if they stayed with you, and that that is what you want to do. Tell them that of course their wishes must be taken into account, and that they must not feel any obligation in the face of pressure from their father. (He will be playing them off against you / each other because this is what addicts do.)

You have nothing to be ashamed of. Nor do your children. Pour as much light on this as you can.

AmandaHoldensLips · 10/05/2023 11:29

And please take legal advice asap.

Unfortunately you will not be able to complete this divorce amicably. All gamblers are inveterate liars.

Make sure you have totally separated your finances and that he hasn't been taking out credit or loans in your name. (I found out the hard way on this particular point.)

Original poster
Unloved1 · 10/05/2023 11:54

@LittleOwl153 as im not on the UC right now till i become unemployed on the 22nd, (im on wtc, ctc and child benefit). i found about this for legal aid help

"If you’re not on any of those benefits, you usually need to earn £1,170 or less a month before tax if you’re single. Or £1,345 or less a month if you have a partner.
You can earn an extra £265 on top of that for each child you have.
For example, if you have a partner and 2 children you have to earn £1,875 or less to be eligible for full help with court fees".

unsure what "single" and "partner" means??

im earning under £1170 pm

i think its all down to the child maintenance, hes hoping all the kids will live with him and i have to pay the cm!?

OP posts:
Original poster
Unloved1 · 10/05/2023 12:02

@CornishGem1975 i want to hold it off asking the kids to figure out who they want to live with,

but its the financial order that he want to tick the box if he need it

can he tick the box and then change his mind at any time? or can he not tick the box and then change his mind that he want it?

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Thewitcherswolf · 10/05/2023 12:11

Your teen girls will want to know where they will be living and if they will be going to the same school/uni/college as planned or having to move areas. Aim to keep those things stable if you can. Don’t make them get involved with the decision about which parent they will spend more time with. That’s asking them to pick a favorite and it will make them feel shit, even if there is an obvious answer.
If I ran the world then gamblers and addicts would get less money in the divorce. There’s no point giving a gambler easy access to a large pool of cash assets. They’ll just waste it.

LittleOwl153 · 10/05/2023 12:18

Unloved1 · 10/05/2023 11:54

@LittleOwl153 as im not on the UC right now till i become unemployed on the 22nd, (im on wtc, ctc and child benefit). i found about this for legal aid help

"If you’re not on any of those benefits, you usually need to earn £1,170 or less a month before tax if you’re single. Or £1,345 or less a month if you have a partner.
You can earn an extra £265 on top of that for each child you have.
For example, if you have a partner and 2 children you have to earn £1,875 or less to be eligible for full help with court fees".

unsure what "single" and "partner" means??

im earning under £1170 pm

i think its all down to the child maintenance, hes hoping all the kids will live with him and i have to pay the cm!?

I'm no expert at this - but you'd be applying for a divorce as a single person I'd assume. But to claim as a single person you'd need to live 'separate lives' which can be done under 1 roof but is more difficult to prove longer term. Your need separate bedrooms, to stop doing household tasks for him such as laundry, cooking etc. I'm sure others will be able to assist with what counts...

Original poster
Unloved1 · 10/05/2023 13:22

Im getting in touch with a mediator and go from there.

I want to thank to every one of you for helping me to understands abit more about this shitty time!! As my brain is all cabbaged!!!

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