How do I leave my husband?

[Alwaysrosey]

Sounds like a stupid question, I know, but I could really do with some advice on this…

We have been married for almost 15 years (together 19) and have 2 children 13 & 11. We own our home (mortgaged but decent amount of equity in it)

The background - we have always had ‘some’ issues, mainly to do with his drinking (more so the person he turns into when he drinks - arrogant, selfish, embarrassing, does stupid things, has no control over his actions - the list could go on much longer) he then spends the weekend hungover in bed - totally irresponsible whilst drinking and the day or two following too.

I am 37 and feel like my life is already over. We do nothing, go nowhere - on the very rare occasion we go out I’m on edge the whole time in case he drinks too much and makes a show of himself (and then when we get home I can’t relax or even sleep as I have to watch him to make sure he doesn’t try to pee in the wardrobe or the corner of the room or go into the kids rooms etc) He ruins any family do’s, weddings, holidays… I can’t bring myself to book anything or plan anything where alcohol might be involved anymore.

I think I’ve finally realised things are never going to change. We have the same argument over and over again and nothing changes. Don’t get me wrong, he’s generally fine Monday to Thursday and most of the time can be a decent guy, but he’s like another person at the weekends and I can’t imagine this being the pattern for the rest of mine and my children’s life.

If I tell him it’s over, what happens with the house and the kids? I really feel like I can’t live with him any longer and I’ve been miserable for over a year (if I’m honest with myself it’s actually a lot lot longer)

I’ve suggested in the past we live apart to see if we can be happier, but he refuses to move out even on a trial basis (and it is both our home, so I do understand this) however if I move out he won’t keep the house clean, go shopping, cook or look after the kids and pets properly, which is why I think it would easier for him to move out rather than for me, 2 kids and 6 pets to move out.

Selling the house and going our separate ways could be an option but even though there is equity in the house, to buy again, or even to rent in the current climate would make us both so much worse off, so financially this doesn’t feel like it makes sense.

I feel so trapped :( any advice would be much appreciated

Talk to a lawyer. Make a plan. If you can rent for a few months, plan to move with the DC. Get everything in place before you tell him. Do you think he can get violent? In this case, be extra careful.
Make copies of documents and financial stuff. You can do it, just do one little thing at a time.

Re – Divorce and Financial Settlement. As I understand it.
To know what a fair split of assets is and to reach a financial settlement divorcing parties need to know what the assets of the marriage are, and what each asset is worth. Full and frank disclosure is required.

Look at a Form E. A long document in which each party sets out their assets, income, and financial needs. You can see in it the assets that are taken into consideration upon divorce and financial settlement, for example property (the former marital home), pensions, stocks and shares etc. It also lists the documents needed that show the value of assets for example CETVs (cash equivalent transfer values of pensions - which can be requested from pension providers).

To find out what some assets are worth an independent expert can be used. Property can be valued by an expert - estate agents, pensions by CETV and / or a pension on divorce expert (PODE) report and so on. It is important to decide what needs a valuation by an independent expert and factor in the costs of these. Pensions can be very valuable – equivalent or more than the value of the former martial home in some cases. Divorcing parties might hold different types of pensions (not like-for-like, so difficult to compare without an expert). Circumstances might be complex for example an age difference or pensions in payment. One party may have stayed at home to look after children.

@AnnaMagnani and @silentpool made some useful comment on this in this thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/divorce_separation/4664756-what-do-i-need-to-do-about-our-pensions?reply=121093079

When splitting the assets of a marriage…
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1973/18/section/25 applies

The income, earning capacity, property, and other financial resource which each of the parties to the marriage has or is likely to have in the foreseeable future is taken into account. As I understand it, first consideration is given to the welfare (while a minor) of any child of the family who has not yet attained the age of eighteen. The needs of each divorcing party are taken into account and as I understand it 50 / 50 is the starting point – so unequal shares based on circumstances and needs is possible, for example 60 / 40.

After Form E, Questionnaires can be exchanged to get further / missing financial information. Deficiencies (further questions) can be exchanged to retrieve missing financial information / evidence. A solicitor's letter can be sent to follow up on and retrieve financial information. A Court Order can also be applied for to get it.

These offer a free advice session about pensions on divorce and separation www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/family-and-care/divorce-and-separation/divorce-or-dissolution-how-we-can-help-with-your-pension
Free advice line (busy so keep trying) rightsofwomen.org.uk

Guides on divorce and financial settlement
www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-apply-financial-order-without-help-lawyer

Pensions on divorce
www.sharingpensions.co.uk/penaudit3.htm
www.mediateuk.co.uk/the-ultimate-guide-to-pensions-on-divorce/
www.nuffieldfoundation.org/news/new-good-practice-guide-addresses-shortfall-in-understanding-of-how-to-treat-pensions-on-divorce
Valuation of pensions – pensions on divorce expert report
www.collinspensionactuaries.co.uk no relation – useful website
www.collinspensionactuaries.co.uk/pension-data-collection/ templates for information required

Legal advice should be sought.
This link gives you an indication of hourly rate for solicitors
www.gov.uk/guidance/solicitors-guideline-hourly-rates
Some organisations offer free advice from solicitors and barristers rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-advice/ On their FAQs page…”Our Legal Officers and Volunteer legal advisors are all solicitors and barristers”.
Some family solicitors offer an in initial free consultation and some a fixed fee rather than hourly.
Some barristers can be directly instructed e.g., via Clerksroom Direct

If needed
www.gov.uk/guidance/domestic-abuse-how-to-get-help

It’s very difficult to answer as no one knows how much money and assets there are and how much you both work/ earn

in the short term think about

who stays in the fmh
who leaves
who / how does mortgage and bills on that get paid
is there enough money for one party to rent
does one party have access to stay elsewhere ( family etc )

Longer term you’d need to understand assets/splits: housing needs etc but short term is the pressing issue to understand

Thank you for the reply, that makes sense that I will need to talk to a lawyer to see where things stand.
He’s not violent really no, he has once or twice (in the whole 19 years) thrown things (not at me, just around the house) when inebriated but never when sober.

Thanks so much for all the info, this is really really helpful!
I shall do lots of reading and research and make a plan

Good luck :) Summary of section 25 here images.ctfassets.net/o8luwa28k6k2/2cpp2mEMwBJWJLuzTiTruB/b5397e7459154fad8927826a2c99acdd/section-25-expert-guide.pdf

Sorry, I was trying to keep the original post shorter (and failed lol)

We both work full time and earn a similar income.
We have a joint account and all bills are paid from there. I control the finances as he doesn’t have a clue / forgets to pay things / would basically piss it all up the wall if left to his own devices…
As everything has always come out of the joint account, I would assume assets would be split 50:50.

My parents have spare rooms at their home and husband’s mum & Dad are separated and both have 2 spare rooms at their houses too.
The main reason I want to stay in the family home is that it is close to the kids school whereas my parents house is not, otherwise I would move there tomorrow. Just typing (and thinking) all this out, I think I should also speak to a mortgage advisor and see, realistically, how much I can afford on my own too.
I could afford the mortgage repayments and bills to continue in the family home on my own (as could he) but if we sold up and both tried to buy a similar property to this one now, the way house prices have risen (even with using half the equity each as a deposit) we wouldn’t get anywhere near a house like this (and I’m only talking about a 3 bed semi here!) I just think it seems silly uprooting the kids lives and moving into a smaller property with higher mortgage for the sake of him just moving out (and I think putting this in writing today is what has made me realise this)

But if you don’t sell
the house and release his equity where do you Exocet him to live ( and buy)
and why is it acceptable for him to move out and gave mess property than now but that’s not ok for you ?

if you both work and warn similar the split is very likely to be 50:50

what sort of child access/ residency do you foresee ?

can you afford to buy out his share, take on the mortgage and bills and still stay there? If not you’re likely to have to sell in the medium term

"I shall do lots of reading and research and make a plan"

This is a good approach @Alwaysrosey - while giving first consideration to any children of the family (putting the welfare of children first) and keeping yourself safe and healthy.

Mediation
In some cases mediation is not suitable / appropriate (e.g.domestic abuse)
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/489125/family-mediation-leaflet-press.pdf
resolution.org.uk/looking-for-help/splitting-up/your-process-options-for-divorce-and-dissolution/hybrid-mediation/
www.gov.uk/looking-after-children-divorce/mediation

Mediation - working links

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/489125/family-mediation-leaflet-press.pdf

resolution.org.uk/looking-for-help/splitting-up/your-process-options-for-divorce-and-dissolution/hybrid-mediation/

www.gov.uk/looking-after-children-divorce/mediation

I don’t know if I’m just biased towards myself here, but I would expect him to leave and not me because I think the kids would live with me, because… (and this is the short version):
He would not make packed lunches, top up school snack accounts, do school runs (as well as working full time - I have flexible working arrangements to accommodate this) he would not get home and then cook for the kids (he doesn’t even make drinks for them) he would never clean the animal cages out, walk the dogs, clean and tidy the house, pay the bills and monitor his bank account, buy the kids new clothes and shoes when needed, make doctors and dentist appointments, go grocery shopping etc, so I don’t expect him to need a 3 bed house as I know he’ll be happier on his own and I’m sure we would both be in agreement that I continue to do all of the above stuff (as well as everything I didn’t mention).
I expect he would see our son most nights as he does lots of sports (which is the only thing my husband is interested in) he probably wouldn’t see much of our daughter but I see them maybe having a sleepover once a week - this is me pre-empting what he’d be happy with just knowing what he is like, obviously we’ve not had this conversation yet, but no way he would take on the full and proper care of the kids & pets and run a household - I expect he would probably go to live with either his Mum or Dad to be honest as they are both single with 2 spare rooms each.

I think you’re naive in the nicest possibly way
hell be entitled to a fair share which based on earnings will likely be the same or largely similar to yours
he will be entitled to housing Similar to yours
he won’t be expected to have a one bed flat while you get enough assets for a 3 bed. House. Going to stay at parents is fine for immediate term but not medium or long term
you may also find when you split he does actually do all the things you list above ….. he doesn’t have to now - you do it- but when you don’t he will.many men and fathers start doing all these things ( of course some don t)

you need to speak about what expectations / wishes he’d have but honestly I think you could be in for a shock and work out what 50:50 finance split could look like and what a sensible realistic child contact arrangement would look like involving overnights at his

In the short term he could move out in the expectation that you give him his share of assets post divorce. Even if you got a mesher order (and that’s unlikely if you have a lot of equity) you have to give him his share at some point. It’s never in anyones interests to move out. Especially if the other party has no plan and no intention of giving you your share anytime soon.

There is no point in building castles in the sky about what you think he would want. As poster said he might surprise you. At mediation he gets his say and you get yours. But you both have parental responsibility and equal rights.

Please also remember that none of this is the responsibility of your parents or his parents. They might help you out but your expectation that they should put him up when you don’t want him living with you is high handed.

Of course he’ll be entitled to his fair share and my intention would be to buy him out eventually and him take half the equity we have in the house which he can then do whatever he chooses to, but he won’t invest it in property, that’s not on his priority list - again another reason why I expect for me and the children to stay in the family home and him to leave - he doesn’t care about the house, the only reason in the past he has refused to move out is because a) he’s lazy and cba to move his stuff out and find other arrangements - he has no idea of what goes into finding a place to either rent or buy. Since we met we have rented a place together, then bought our first house and then sold and moved to our current house and all three times he had no involvement with ANY of it - he would have been happy renting forever b) he knows if he ignores the problem we’ll just carry on as we are (miserable) barely living, pretty much living separately in the same house, which is what I just can’t do anymore

I am naive though, you’re right, we’ve been together since we were 19 and this is all I have ever known, but regardless of who gets what money wise, I would expect him to do the right thing morally. If I was the screw up parent and could see he was doing right by the kids, I would let him have the house FOR THEM. Surely the care of the children comes into consideration and it’s not all about what the parents come out with? Neither of us have ever been ‘that’s mine - I paid for that’ etc everything I do, I do it for my kids and he knows that. He also know that he does not.
Yes maybe separating might mean that he does start to do the things he should be doing now, but I’ll only ever believe it when I see it.

Overnights at his could never be when he’s drinking and he ‘has’ to drink every Friday and Saturday night - he puts it above absolutely anything else to the detriment of our marriage and his children’s happiness - they would refuse to go if he was drinking and I would not let them either, but as I said in an earlier post, this stuff has never been discussed as he refuses to ever accept we will ever separate.
Worth noting he also refuses to go to any kind of couples counselling, which I have suggested soooo many times over the years, he refuses to see a doctor as I’m certain there are reasons behind him being the way he is. Trust me when I say I have TRIED to make this work for a very very long time…

If I were to believe it has to work out the way you say, then I might as well give up now and stay in a loveless, miserable marriage just to keep a roof over the kids heads but I see what this is doing to them. They are getting older and they are getting miserable too and it breaks my heart that this is the example set for them and that this is what I accept as their mother :(

I only said I expect he would live with either of his parents in the short term because I know his parents very well and I know they would put him up - his mum lived with us for over a year between selling and buying her new house and she would never see her son struggle. I know it is not her responsibility and I’m sure he would move on eventually but that would no longer be my problem.

I would of course give him his fair share of the assets whenever that might be possible (something I haven’t looked into yet as this is still me trying to find out the process, what I need to do and what can be done)

Basically he is an alcoholic. He doesn’t have to drink every day to be one. Binge drinking until he is out of control at the weekends the way he does he is definitely an alcoholic.

So I would give him an ultimatum that he stops drinking or leaves. I know it sounds easy. I know it won’t be. Have you ever said to him that he is an alcoholic?

But how are you going to get him out? Physically?

If he doesn't want to leave then I can't see him packing his stuff up.

You can’t make him leave, just like he can’t make you leave the house is a joint asset. And whilst I can see why you think you should stay in the family home realistically if he is as lazy as you say, then you moving out is probably going to be the quickest route to leaving him.

Agree with this, you might find it useful to speak to Al Anon OP. They support the families of problem drinkers and may well be able to offer insight and advice you won't get elsewhere. The 'pattern' you mentioned in your OP will be very familiar to them and they will understand completely the position you find yourself in.

Yes I’ve been telling him for many years - he ‘jokes’ that he is a weekend alcoholic I’ve told him there is nothing funny about it.
The ‘ultimatum’ has been discussed many times over the years although I hate that term - I would prefer a compromise but there never is one.

So, treating him as an alcoholic… I can’t help him unless he wants to help himself right?

Thank you, I will post on there too

Yes you can’t help him unless he wants to help himself. And if he thinks he is only a weekend alcoholic he has no reason to try to help himself. And why would he? He has the ‘great’ weekends he wants and you do everything else.

speak to AlAnon. May bring you some clarity.

id be giving the ultimatum. He give up the drinking or leaves. See what he says. He won’t give up the drinking easily.

I would of course give him his fair share of the assets whenever that might be possible (something I haven’t looked into yet as this is still me trying to find out the process, what I need to do and what can be done)

If you want to split up and lead separate lives you cannot keep his money till whenever. Just not a thing. Splitting up means splitting up everything. It’s none of your business what he does with his money after the divorce.