Christmas question

[custodyqus]

Hi quick question but massive post! My exh will be having our children one evening a week for a few hours (Thursday) then overnight Thursday to Monday once a month. Currently due to the age of the children (1 and 3) it sounds like it will work well for us. He will have them for the weekend twice per month when they are older and he can see them more in the evenings if he wants but he wont due to "work (aka other woman)".

The sticking point is Christmas, he wants them for every other Christmas Day but because he wants to spend it with his family who live 3 hours drive away he wants to take them from Christmas Eve to Boxing Day. I’m happy with every other Christmas or even sharing Christmas but would like to see them for some of the day.

Is it fair on young children to do what he wants? The magic for Christmas for me was waking up at home and spending all day in PJs etc.

I will recreate a special “home Christmas” on another day if needed but wondered what the norm was. He doesn’t have them half the time so seems unfair he gets them half the Christmases!

Also, what do you do when your children aren’t there if you have no one to spend it with (I have no family and have friends but none I know well enough to want to gatecrash their Christmas)

I have 1 year old twins and a primary age child.

Its not a set up I would be agreeing to no. I made it quite clear to STBEXH that it was his choice to leave, he made it quite clear he didn't want to parent full time anymore and I didn't have children to only see them 50% of special occasions. He doesn't have any overnights currently

So our current likely split is he sees them Xmas eve or he can come Xmas day for a few hours to see them open presents. Or maybe a Boxing Day if we aren't going away.

I agree that for me Xmas day isn't about being shuttled between various homes

@20weeksandcounting2023 thanks so much for replying. I'm reassured that I'm not unreasonable thinking like this. I will have another chat with the ex

If he went to court he’d probably get every other Christmas. Maybe ask if he’d drive over on Christmas morning, there’s no traffic on the roads, it will be a much easier journey than Christmas Eve!

When I worked in family law our local judges said alternate Christmases.

I think it’s tricky, it’s not unreasonable for him to want his children to have Christmas with his family and every other year is fairly normal. I’m keen for my kids to maintain a relationship with both of our extended families and such an arrangement would facilitate this. I’d agree to every other year before I’d agree to splitting the day and shuttling kids about.

Personally at that age you'd probably get a better time with them by having two distinct days rather than them opening some presents with one parent then dashing to open stuff with another then having to leave and go back.

As others have said courts would likely say do alternate Christmas Days so try and work out so you can do your own Christmas on Christmas Eve or Boxing Day for example depending on what is arranged.

Thanks everyone. For people saying the courts would alternate Christmases, do the courts do that for a specified period eg xmas Eve to Boxing Day or just Christmas Day?

At school age and if they are going that far away what can work is one year Xmas week with one parent, new year week with the other parent and vice versa the next year. Much better for the children than lots of travelling over Xmas eve - Boxing day.

It might not seem fair that you do most of the childcare but don't get all of the special times like waking up on Xmas morning with them. However you really don't want your children growing up sad that they never experienced those things with their other parent.

I split with my ex when my dd was 3.
Christmas Day with me was non negotiable. She always spent it with me. And Christmas Eve. He would (and still does) come over Christmas morning to see her open her presents. Then his gf would join us for an hour so we could swop presents/ have breakfast (we do get on well)
Boxing Day morning she'd go to his house, spend the day there then come home again.
It's worked well for the last 15 years x

I wouldn't rely on a post like this as good advice, not least because it creates an assumption that you have the right to say no and also the tone is belligerent. There's a general rule well followed in family disputes, which is that most matters will be settled in one of two ways:

1. You compromise amicably with one another; or
2. You fight about it with collateral damage to the children, get solicitors involved that cost large sums of money and then end up at roughly the same place, in this case having children every other Christmas.

Occasionally you might follow path 2 and either win or lose badly (e.g. not only getting the same compromise but with the other party's costs) but that's quite rare.

Best thing to do accept you don't like it, realise your ex will feel exactly the same way and meet in the middle. That's my opinion on it anyway.

We actually do split the day itself in the middle, but live very close to each other.
So Xmas eve through to 1 p.m. Xmas day in one house. Rest of Xmas day and boxing day in the other.
We have a 50:50 arrangement the rest of the time too though.
Children are 15 and 10, but split up when 6 and 12 ish.
If one of us wanted to visit family we'd go before or after Xmas, not for the day itself.

@badassbaby that sounds amazing, I wish we could agree similar but the distance from his family prevents that

@BetterFuture1985 thanks for the honest reply, part of my problem is I don't think it's fair as the year I get them he wants them on either Christmas Eve or Boxing Day on those years. To me it's only fair if I get them for the same period on "my year" which he isn't keen on ironically.

@MichaelAndEagle I like what you do but it's a bit unfair on the children to travel 3 hours xmas day. Maybe I will propose it but suggest he stays at his home for his bit then visits his family the days before or after (depending if he has am or pm)

He chose where we live due to his work so he's always known the distance to his family. When we were together it never mattered as we went up there a few days after. It's only now we have split that he wants to see them "on the day".

I think if he has to travel then the split needs to be Christmas Eve through to Boxing Day. But it has to be fair. He doesn't get to encroach on your time on your years. If it's 12 Xmas even through to 5pm Boxing Day then that's it. Both ways.

Room to negotiate then. You will only agree to him having every other Christmas for that period if you get the same. Otherwise no deal.

He's going to take that if the alternative is a legal battle, let's be honest.

Myself and exh have every other Xmas and have done that for the last 6 years, boys are now 13, 8 and 7. Because he also lives 3 hours away we split the Xmas holidays in half, this year its my turn and they go to their dads on the 27th till after New Year, last year he had Xmas and he collected on the 23rd and they came home on the 28th. When it's his turn we have a Dominoes Xmas day the day before they go, they get to open all their presents from me and my family and we order in pizza for dinner, the boys love it. When they are with their dad I either go to a friends or my sisters or I have worked. (I'm a care assistant) I struggled with them gone the first Xmas but now I'm not too fussed.

@BetterFuture1985 I really hope so as I can't afford one and it would be a shame as we have done really well with everything else and have found "compromises".

It's also why I asked for opinions as I wanted outside views in case I was being unrealistic
(and I think I was to think I could get more Christmas time as I have them more so I will forget that).

I think for now i will suggest two options

• split the day (with ex staying local on the day then going up the day before or after) or
• both have the "extended period" on their year

They seems fairest to me until the DC can have more input.

@Phillipa12 i guess on my extended year I could go somewhere myself as I think it's the being "home alone" I'm dreading.

The home alone is hard the first year, but I've learnt to enjoy it now.
The key is to be kind to yourself and just do what you feel like, pj's, chocolate, fave tv x

both have the "extended period" on their year this seems to work best for my DSC. There's no traveling between homes over festive period and theu experience the whole Christmas at each hope alternately. The one who doesn't get christmas gets new year.

Splitting the day might work at that age but it might also be overwhelming as both parents will be wanting to do the present openings and meals and family stuff

If Christmas is about the children why do so many parents make it about them? Don't make kids leave their presents and be shuffled about on Christmas Day just because you want to see them. When I split with my ex I just said he could have our son every Christmas Eve until Boxing Day. I was an adult and just got on with Christmas with friends. My family lived a couple of hours away so I'd go there on Boxing Day with my son until new year without feeling bad he hadn't seen his other relatives. We just made our Christmas different. We went to the pantomime and made our own traditions. Too much pressure is put on one day. Eventually the kids get to choose themselves what happens anyway. The first year is hard but the acceptance of a crap situation makes it easier and much less argumentative

Whatever you decide needs to be fair to both of you, but more importantly to your children. As others have said, if you went to court, it would be unlikely to end up as anything other than alternate years. Any other arrangement would be down to the parents to agree.
So, if he picks them up Christmas Eve morning and returns them Boxing Day evening, then it has to be the same (but reversed) the other year. You COULD alternate New Year with Christmas, if that worked for you.
Ultimately Christmas is about traditions as much as anything, and you can make your own traditions to work for you.

As an aside, the first year after our split, I found the time around Christmas that my DCs were with him, excruciatingly painful. Knowing that they were having a “family Christmas” with him and the woman he’d left me for absolutely broke me, so I volunteered to help with events for people who were on there own. There is/ was a website, called Community Christmas which has a list of events across the country. Or, you could go to see wider family - parents/ siblings etc. Or just chill out/ book a weekend away for yourself - but personally, I’d opt for company at least the first year.

I hope you enjoy yourself whatever you do. You will get through it, even though it feels like the end of the world atm.

We only separated last year so haven't really got a routine with Christmas as yet.

Last year we all spent Christmas day together as normal as we thought this would be easier for the children. This year I think I will have the children here with me for Xmas day but their Dad will come over in the morning to see them open presents and can then stay for lunch if he would like to. I don't want to spend Xmas with him but I also don't like the thought of him spending it alone and I know this would upset the children if they thought Daddy was on his own for Christmas. Boxing day he is trading then to see his family.

Eventually I would like to go to an every other Xmas situation so that one of us has Christmas eve through to boxing day morning one year, the other had the same the next. I think my children would struggle with this at the moment though so I am willing to invite their Dad here for Xmas even though I would prefer not to.

Courts don't always give alternative Xmas.
I have every xmas eve,Xmas day & boxing day. Ex gets the weekend following Xmas. This is for every year.
He only has EOW and no other contact so court wasn't going to give him extra time on special days.

Thanks everyone for replying. Thankfully (for now) ex has agreed to stay local on christmas day and pop in for an hour then take them to his family lunchtime Boxing Day. He claims he wants to be "fair" so we will see what he agrees to going forward

I would say it's fair for him to pick them up around midday on Christmas Day and keep them for 2-3 days), following year he returns them by 2pm Christmas Day.