Separation before divorce advice

[bunnytailbreakfast]

Hi there

Hoping for a bit of practical advice if possible.

DH (of 8 years) and I are currently separated and I am confident will be divorcing in the future.

There has been a catalogue of issues including him being registered with an escort website, borrowing huge sums money from friends (i was not aware of this) and to top it off it has now transpired he has borrowed money from a loan shark who has our address. His family are helping him to clear these debts

This is alongside some pretty horrible behaviour from him for the last 18 months, escalating since we had our twins 9 months ago.

I am in the family home (mortgaged) with the babies whilst he stays with family. We don't have any joint savings (we always kept savings seperate) and share a joint bank account which we both put into for household bills.

I am a slightly higher earner (though currently on mat leave) and have a pension. He is self employed and doesn't have a pension, though apparently has small financial investments, but I don't know a great deal about these.

Ideally what I'd like to do in the future is sell the house and split the equity 50/50 which should allow us the deposit for a small property of our own. The children will stay with me but he will have shared access though right now his behaviour makes this difficult as every time he sees them, he makes comments to me which make me upset.

I am just wondering whether there's anything I should be doing right now, particularly in light of his money habits, to protect myself?

Thanks in advance

Hello

Im sorry you are in this position

I have 1 year old twins and DH left a week ago out of the blue saying he couldn't cope with family life

We have been married 10 years - I'm the higher earner. I have pensions him much smaller ones so not hugely dissimilar to you

I have a thread running at the moment - the consensus on there is that as I earn more he will get more equity than 50% maybe even as high as 70% which frightens me even though he has left us and I'll be the main parent.

I'm seeing some lawyers this week to see what they advise

Given his money issues I'd be careful that he suddenly decides he isn't going to pay into the joint account - are you able to cover the bills on your own if this happens?

Even though your savings aren't joint they will be classed as a marital asset and included in the negotiation pot I believe. Unfortunately same goes for debts

Hi @isthistheendtakeabreath I'm so sorry to hear about your similar situation. As if life with twins isn't challenging enough ey?!

Gosh that terrifies me, similarly I'll be the main parent and no doubt the one having to arrange all practicalities for the children too (childcare, clothes, food!)

At the moment I'm still on mat leave so if he stops paying it'll eat up all of the savings I have... it's a scary thought but I could survive until I return to work and then I could cover the mortgage (but it'll be tight!)

Do you think you'll stay in the family home? X

@bunnytailbreakfast

I really don't know at the moment. I can't afford to buy him out until the twins get 30 hours childcare and even then I'd only be able to afford 50% equity split. If he got any more we'd definitely have to sell. But if costs keep rising like gas/electric etc then I couldn't afford to stay and we'd have to move away somewhere much cheaper

I just feel so sad really

I totally hear you @isthistheendtakeabreath ... I flit between feelings of total sadness to complete rage that someone could do this to our little ones. I am sorry you are going through this too x

Do not agree to anything until you’ve spoken to a solicitor. As the main carer of the little ones you may well find that you’re entitled to more than 50 %.

@KangarooKenny

Thanks - the advice on the other forum was that because I earn 3x DH then even if was the main carer for the kids he could still take maybe 70% equity or more purely so that his housing needs can be met the same as mine - even if he only has them every other weekend

@bunnytailbreakfast

Yes agree moments of anger and then tears and then feeling scared for what the future looks like and what the kids will miss out on and me losing time with them because they are split across 2 homes

@isthistheendtakeabreath I listened to a really thought provoking podcast last night in the subject of divorce, and it did touch on children and the impact it has on them. It helped me a little (though my feeling seem to fluctuate by the hour!)

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/s2-ep-6-best-friend-therapy-divorce-is-it-failure-or/id1614793299?i=1000576840353 here's the link- let me know what you think, if you do listen to it.

Thankyou @KangarooKenny ... I am going to try and get a solicitor to give me some advice. I would really like to sell the house before divorcing, and split the profit, but knowing my DH he'll splurge his money and then he might be entitled to mine!

Really - put it in the hands of a solicitor and be guided by them.

See a solicitor asap for advice, you need to protect yourself as much as possible and as early as possible in this situation, good luck

@isthistheendtakeabreath situation slightly different here, as OP says she is only the slightly higher earner, whereas (as you say) you earn more than three times what your ex does. So I would expect things to be more 50/50 here.

@bunnytailbreakfast some things to consider, for your situation.

Debts are typically considered family debts in a divorce. Which means your share could be affected by what he owes. You mention that his family are helping him pay everything back. If you're confident that's achievable - I would consider waiting until that's sorted before divorcing.

Given your husbands appalling money habits, I think you definitely want a clean break!

Once you are divorced - absolutely make sure that you speak to all three credit reference agencies and ask them to sever your financial ties formally, so that any future debts won't affect your credit rating. (People forget this step all the time). You can't do that until you have no linked finances, so I'd be extremely wary of (for instance) mesher orders or anything that keeps you on a joint financial product. (Another reason clean break particularly important for you).

Both your savings go into the pot when assets are being carved up. As far as possible I would try and make sure that you have a fairly good understanding of his financial picture so he doesn't try and hide things.

Self-employment can make it really easy for people to play silly buggers with child maintenance. Make sure you understand his full income picture, because most SEd people have low salaries and higher dividends. Dividends can absolutely be taken into account for CM, but you may have to push. I presume your husband had to detail his income when you bought the house, so any record of that would be a good starting point.

CM is only backdated to the day you claim, so get that in early. Also make sure you look at things like single person council tax discount and child benefit.

Thanks @OnceUponAThread this is incredibly helpful s

@isthistheendtakeabreath thought I'd update...
I was able to speak to a solicitor today (free 30 min consultation thingy)
I feel (dare I say it!) a little more optimistic. There appears to be options to put forward as part of a proposal (some have greater chance of being granted than others!) but his view was very much that as I'll have the care of two very young children for a long time, there's no way we should be agreeing to a 50/50 split on the house, also gave some good advice re the pension stuff.
It's obviously all hypothetical at the moment as I haven't started any process, but I feel a lot more comfortable with it given this is the direction it looks to be heading.
Will still probably have a little cry later, because I am still in shock this is actually my life!
Hope you are doing ok x

@bunnytailbreakfast

Thankyou! My appointment is tomorrow not a free one though! 😬

I've been doing lots of research whilst I can today and feel a bit better about things

I'm just going to go in with a list of things I want to get out of the impending divorce and want advice as to whether it's likely that I would get it without a lengthy court case - I'd like to resolve through mediation if I can

I'm going to push that I want to leave this area one day with the kids - maybe in a year maybe less who knows - I can't afford to stay in this area even giving him 50% equity and I have family under 2 hours away that can provide emotional and physical support.

He's back home at the moment seeing the children and it's just bloody awful to be honest. I want this over with now.

It's a weird feeling - I thought I'd feel more heartbroken for me but I actually feel nothing. It's like all my feelings for him went out the door with him when he walked out on us

That's the thing really, if I were to downsize I couldn't actually go into anything smaller than a 2 bed house (which would be a tight squeeze with twins and dog!) ... 2 beds in this area are highly sought after so are not cheap, whereas DH would only need to worry about getting a 1 bed given I will have full childcare responsibility.

The point the solicitor made is that I need to have enough equity/proportion of the house to be able to secure a suitable property or stay in the current property.

Really hope your appointment goes well, please keep us informed.

Hope your husband is out of the house soon, I know how uneasy it feels when they're back. I find it infuriating that he thinks he can come back and be all fun time Dad with our twins and then bugger off.

@bunnytailbreakfast

Ah see the housing thing is what confuses me as because I'm a much higher earner - on my other thread I was told my DH would have to have a house/home of equal size to mine to house the kids (3 of them) - so if I have a 3 bed then he has the right to the same even though I'm the main parent. My suggestion on my other thread that he could manage with a 2 bed was shot down even though he'll rarely have them overnight

Yeah I'm with you @isthistheendtakeabreath ... ultimately if our DHs are only having the children to stay sporadically or for minimal nights per week, the argument is that they don't "need" a large property in the same way we do to provide their main and principle home.

I'm not sure if you have boy/girl twins (mine are the same gender) but I'd have thought in that scenario the argument is greater for you to need the larger property as they'll hit an age where they won't want to share a bedroom...

Solicitor also said that the other option is to request that I remain in the family home with the children until they reach 18 (or 21 if they go to uni) with an agreed % of the sale proceeds at this time being given to DH at that time... he said many husbands argue they want to be able to buy their own property following a divorce, so in this scenario they still technically own part of a property but don't live in it. This wouldn't be my chosen option however, I'd like to think we'd downsize.
Xxx

@bunnytailbreakfast

The twins are boy/girl and then I have an older girl too.

I don't want to stay in this house now - I thought I did but I realise now there will be too many ghosts of the pasts and the future we were supposed to have here. I want to sell - get the split over and done with - I don't want to wait until the kids are 18 to finally severe links with him - but in doing that I'd no longer be able to afford a 3 bed in this area on my own. His salary might not be much but it was enough just to make us comfortable. I can't maintain this house if I stay in it - childcare fees are the best part of £2k per month. I'm going to push for a clean break where we'll move away. He said he doesn't want family life anymore so I'm giving him want he wants really.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm punishing him but I don't see why I (and therefore the kids as well) should be punished and have to live in a small house with no money left for anything just so he can relive his single footloose and fancy free youth - by moving away I can afford a much bigger house that's also cheaper and have help with childcare through family that I've not got here.

The kids won't see him much less than they would if we stayed here and I'll be happier

You don't sound like you're punishing him at all to me. He is the one who made this decision, not you.

And you can only work with what you've got in terms of availability of affordable property.

Neither you or your children should live in poverty and seeing as Dad has let you all down, it's upto you to make decisions in your best interests.

My DH hasn't explicitly said he doesn't like family life but I know having children isn't what he expected and has been far too disruptive to the routine he craves. I suspect (though he won't admit) he's quite enjoying the time staying away right now, getting good sleep and just doing what he likes without anybody to answer to...

Hoping your appointment today goes ok x x x

@bunnytailbreakfast

So I feel a lot better now and the solicitor was so astounded by his behaviour that actually it was good to laugh about what a dick he is - felt like therapy 😂

So in their view 50% equity split is reasonable - whilst the courts look to home both parties in equal standards it's not about being the same like for like - a 2 bed apartment in a nice area when you only have children 2 nights a fortnight in their view is reasonable

He doesn't maximise his earnings potential either so that would also be taken into account

With me paying such massive childcare fees my ability to raise a mortgage is actually significantly less than him which also favours 50/50 split - in fact I'll have to most likely be very economical with the truth when it comes to the mortgage application anyway

Pensions - we still have decades of earning potential ahead and actually my pot of £45k isn't that big really so it may be that I won't lose much of it all

Moving away with the kids - given his reason for leaving and whilst she has seen cases where a judge has prevented a parent leaving - the fact that neither of us have ties here, no roots, no family and no close friends then she cannot see that a judge would prevent it - that's if he took it to court

@isthistheendtakeabreath Thanks for the update- I thought of you today and hoped it had gone well, glad that it did.

It's a surreal feeling having actual serious conversations with another human being about this stuff isn't it? But it sounds like, like me, it's at least given you some sense of direction and dare I say it's not as bad as you might have been thinking.

I think both of our DH have made a mistake in walking out on the family home because it demonstrates that they have no wish to be full time Dads so therefore shouldn't be able to dictate where we live.

Your twins are a few months ahead of mine, do you think they've noticed any difference with DH not being there all of the time?
X

It's sad but he doesn't really spend much time with them normally, I do all the care for them really other than the odd really bad night if both are up all hours. God it's awful to say but I don't think they'll notice the difference

I go through stages but today I'm just really upset that in my late 30s with young children I may never have a long term relationship again. And it's quite frightening really. Don't get me wrong my life isn't defined by being in a relationship but it's all I've known for so long. Not having that person who you can text silly things to whilst at work or watch box sets with or wile away the hours. Or just know they are somewhere in the house.

Hey &@isthistheendtakeabreath how are things?

Can relate to many of your feelings, something about the long weekend in particular (even though with babies and maternity leave it makes very little difference what day it is!!) really highlighted how much I just missed seeing his face or just telling him things. I saw family over the weekend and kept calling other people by his name.

But on the other side of the coin I am angry, angry that he has walked out on his family without putting any work in.

I'm a similar age to you, and the thought of another relationship terrifies me... yet everyone else I know is settled down, so will I be the single friend that nobody knows where to sit at a wedding??b

@bunnytailbreakfast

I'm ok thanks - went away with the kids for a few days as was finding being in what was our family home upsetting

It was strange not messaging him whilst we were away and found it really hard to navigate how much or little to update him on the kids with what they've been doing and silly photos or videos like I'd normally do. It felt weird second guessing it and it wasn't a nice feeling.

Yeah I know a couple of single friends - work friends really but everyone else in very seemingly stable happy marriages/relationships

We went through a lot of losses to have the twins and I used to feel incredibly jealous when seeing babies/pregnant women/ family groups now I can feel myself slipping into jealousy when I see happy loved up couples

Having the twins I thought that's it we've made it through some horrendous years we can be happy now but it's only lasted a year