Unforeseen impact of divorce - losing a child

[CordeliaBrideshead]

I began the divorce process during lockdown after a long and unhappy marriage. My Ex had always refused to work (even when I had cancer I had to work) beyond doing a bit of invoicing in my business and saying he was the main carer. I'd always been based at home and our children could get to school independently.

As I was the only working party with assets I had to settle with him. The financial negations were costly but we reached an agreement and signed Heads of terms whilst pension sharing is sorted.

Our children are 15 and 17. Our son had a terrible relationship with his father who was abusive to him. So we knew he wouldn't live with him but our daughter (15) said she'd divide her time 50/50.

This hasn't happened. My ex has bought a house near her school whilst I'm stuck in rented in our old village further away whilst I try to find a new home. She last stayed with me for a few nights at end of January. He's got a new GF and she has a daughter the sane age. So she's been involved in going to see her etc.

Everyone sees my daughter more than me. I suggest things of course. I saw her for an hour in February for a coffee and she brought a friend. I had a pizza with her and her brother on Mother's Day.

I know she's happy and she's always got on with her father. Towards the end of our marriage he had total control of her. Watching tv together, going on dog walks, eating together. He used her to spy on me and they are a tight unit. He's bad mouthed me and sometimes his ugly opinions come out her mouth. I guess she blames me for the divorce and she's still so young.

I don't want to be bitter or needy or selfish. My ex has now made a CM claim against me so I've made a counter claim re our son. I've encouraged our son to spend a night a week with his father and I still update and involve him on our sons life. But it's a total one way street. My ex's GF probably knows more about my daughter than me.

This hurts me all day, every day. My daughters comms with me are like I am an acquaintance and not her mother. She does not want me to do anything for her beyond pay for things. Just like her father.

If she does come to me (because he is away) it's under duress and not enjoyable.

I could not have stayed married to that angry, controlling, abusive man a moment longer but this is really hitting me where it hurts. He's also taken our 14yr old dog and won't let me see him.

Our son can see what is going on and has tried to intervene about why she won't see me. He says she just runs away. Thinks she's immature but doesn't hate me. I think he's made it hard for her to enjoy me (because I am his anti Christ) but when we are together we have moments of old times.

Does anyone have any advice or hope for me? I'm terrified we will become estranged. I'm desperately trying to buy a house in the same town she is in, but lost out on one yesterday. 😩

Thank you.

Cordelia

Just keep inviting her to see you, let her know the door’s always open. Abusive men always end up revealing themselves to their kids eventually - so just make sure she knows you’re available when he does that to her.

I’m sorry for your situation
I dont think there’s much you can do other than keep inviting her to meet ( in a no pressured way) and make it clear she’ll always be welcome and that you love her
She’ll very likely start to see what is happening / open her eyes but for now I’d say back away

It’s really hard and sorry you’re in this situation

I know it sucks and I'm sorry. There are countless fathers who go through having their children manipulated by a mother into not wanting to spend time with them.

If you think there's genuine alienation then you need to consult legal advice on way forward. You can seek child arrangement orders but given they're over 10 she may want to choose to live with him anyway, in spite of who you know him to be. It wouldn't be appropriate to act on his level.

Keep open, keep wanting to spend time with them, keep trying to arrange things. It's a miserable position but as the new world's become more established it may get better. These sorts of behaviours tend to get revealed eventually irrespective of sex. Good luck.

I think you have to rise above it, there is nothing to be gained by trying to force anything with either of them. Be patient, be available to her, keep inviting. I think the likelihood is that as she gets older she will come to view things differently, teenage years are very difficult and she probably does blame you somewhat at the moment, so you need to play the long game.

Keep your door open always, keep the lines of communication open.
Send her funny memes or other things she might like, ask her to come round a bit more for tea or take her out if it's within your means.
Basically just keep making all the effort you can.
Take an interest in her life, don't badmouth ex or new gf.
Hopefully she will come out the other side, but you have to prove to her you are not who you ex is probably telling her you are.

Op I went through exactly this. When exh saw the writing on the wall he all of a sudden became very involved in her life. I tod her I left for someone else. I found awful text messages on her phone between the 2 of them. Him telling her I was a loser, her reporting back my movements, his telling her I dont love her etc.

I didn't see her for 18 months. I had it our with him on the ohone about the messages and pointed out it was a a sick and twisted person that would try and convince a teenager their parent doesn't love them.

I just regularly text her. Asked how she was and told her I loved her. Exh eventually encouraged her to see me because it interfered with his new relationships to have her their all the time.

Eventually, we arranged to meet. Built up from there and now she lives with me and doesnt see him. We have a younger child and dd became the main carer for the younger one when they were both there. She eventually saw through his lies and saw he was using her.

She is 18 now, I left when she was 13. We have a fab relationship, very close. She needed alot of support when she saw what her dad was doing. Though I do encourage her to speak to him, I leave her to it on the whole.

The main thing, for me, was that I didn't blame her for any of what she did. She has said that made it alot easier to come back to eachother. She said she felt angry at the time and felt like she wanted to blame someone for the split and it landed on me as she believed I left for someone else and I was the one that moved out. She saw it that I had broke the family up.

All I can advise is patience and understanding.

This sounds very hard for you.

Would it help to understand that at 15 your dd may well have started to ‘grow away’ from you anyway?
I have 2 teen dds and have observed this.

As others have said, (or similar) keep the lines of communication open and develop your relationship in whatever ways she is willing.
This may be giving lifts (useful to have a chat when driving) paying to go out for food/snacks - even if she does bring a friend. Communicate via whatever means she prefers (watsapp or social media or whatever) at whatever time of day works for her.

15 year old girls (boys probably as well but I only have girls) can be ‘picky’ and sensitive and they are very much finding their way in the world. So as hard as it may be for you, nice and light/low key.
Also (if applicable) don’t listen to well meaning grandparents or anyone else who might encourage you to be ‘firmer’.
Your dd is growing into a young adult and regardless of the marriage breakdown, at some point over the next few years you would likely have had to negotiate the relationship anyway as she grows up.

It sounds really tough. At some point she will want and need you as her dm and if you've shown that you love her and are consistent and caring and have not made her feel awful about having been distant for a time she will be so glad that you're still there, being her dm. She's 15 she hasnt got the maturity to see the bigger picture. Play the long game. From experience it's really challenging to cut off a parent, I don't think anyone does it without huge, overwhelming reasons why a relationship is no longer possible.

Could you write her a letter? She can read it more than once without losing face, and she can even pretend she hasn't read it if she wants to. Make sure she receives it somewhat where her father won't know she has it.

Just fill it with how much you love her, maybe some hopes for the future, whatever you think will reassure her where she is right now.

Hard as it is, just wait. Sometimes what kids need is to experience their dad in full technicolour before they realise.

Thank you for all your comments. I think it's tough for her as she loves her dad and he's made her feel she needs to choose between us. Someone mentioned child triangulation and a loyalty bind. So he's made her feel guilty or disloyal for enjoying me or voluntarily spending time with me. Beyond when he goes away and she has to. V rare.

I had her overnight this week and when he collected her stuff (my son did the handover) he went through her bag and removed an Easter egg I had put in for her. I messaged her about it and said I'd give her some Easter holiday spends and she responded to thank me but say that would not be necessary. Form now seems to be no ad hoc Contact or FaceTime. No gifts or money. Occasional texts only. So I've opened an account and put it in there.

I feel my bitter controlling Ex is trying to destroy my relationship with her and make out her brother is favoured (he lives with me and I am the higher earner). I too have been under his regime of tight control and in a way know what she's going through. It's easier to give in but they do get on and have more in common than she and I. My terrible abusive marriage kept me silent in a corner or screaming in conduct with him.

I agree I have to play the long game. Be relaxed and easy going and tell her I love her. Hurts like crazy but I don't want to battle him or pressurise her. I love her too much for that. I need to suck this up. She did see conflict and that has probably harmed her.

But I would do anything to make her a cup of tea or a meal (when she does visit me she won't allow me to do this anymore), do her washing, watch TV with her or go for a dog walk. I crave normal life again. My son visits his father and so he has that.

She's 16 in July and 6th form may make things easier. I hope so. 🤞🤞🤞

Conflict not conduct

This is so hard for you.

My OH’s daughter (now 16) has been poisoned & manipulated by her own mother. Social services got involved twice (investigated parental alienation) as did the court, but they were next to useless. The mother just had her knuckles wrapped by SM & a judge and was ASKED not to bad mouth the father. The kids weren’t allowed to call dad dad, weren’t allowed to bring anything from ours to ‘her’ house. Dad was regularly referred to ‘as a useless piece f shit father’.

At 15 she stopped visiting (despite a court order) and stopped communication with her dad. I think it was just easier for her and it pleased mum.

By the time of last SS involvement she was 15.5 and they said there was nothing they could do as by 16 they fall out of child contact arrangements and they are deemed to be able to make their own arrangements.

My advice would be to keep the lines of communication open with the hope once she is mature enough she will realise what has happened.

Good luck.

The bank account is a good idea. Put in whatever money you would normally be giving to her that she won’t currently accept. Then when things calm down and the relationship improves again, you can tell her about it and say it’s for her for driving lessons/uni living costs or whatever. Make sure your son knows about it now, so that he knows the money in there is equivalent to what you’re spending or giving to him for similar things at the moment (birthday presents, driving lessons etc).

Keep regularly messaging her, not necessarily with the expectation of a reply, and not about the same things over and over - just regular texts to show you are still there ´good luck for your exam today. Love mum’ or ´Happy Easter. We have been for a walk in the woods to see the spring flowers. Love mum’. ´I’m on annual leave next week, let me know if you’d like to have coffee in town. Love mum.’

The one thing I noticed was that even tho she wouldn't take the money but you opened an account and put it in there for her. Keep doing this and one day you can tell her all about it. She's so young and she will be older soon. I wasn't close to my mum for various reasons for so long but I am now and we are much older than the ages you are talking about, much older. Keep her in mind, keep the door open. You will find a way back to each other in time

@northernspirit Thanks for sharing. I think her age is against me as well hence not pursuing this via lawyers or the courts. My Ex used to go on about the children voting with their feet. So I guess he had this situation as a planned outcome. I realise that if I do anything beyond quiet acceptance I will push her further away. And reinforce his hero/victim identity.

My son can't understand why she'd reject spending money but he knows she still gets in. Albeit in a savings account. I think it's because my Ex has tried to get more money out of me and I said no (after a generous settlement). So he's probably gone the other way now and said we won't take her money. Always all about power and control for him. Not what's best for our children.

I guess it will either come good or it won't. But I can't control anything. Only quietly influence.

@thewheelsoffthebus Thank you. I'm trying to do the texts more and probably get a response to every 5th one. But it's a connection. And she's also started to follow me on Insta. She's never allowed me to follow her. Only her father who doesn't post. But it's another connection. And I just saw one of her friends has asked to follow me.

I can’t comment at all about the family situation but 14-15 year old girls can do some awful things. And then they just dig the hole deeper. And eventually they start to wonder how to get out of said hole.

Dd had one of her very good friends (intelligent, good parenting etc) just stop talking to her. For two years. Dd was deeply hurt. She got a text late on her birthday this year with a bit of an apology saying “I don’t knowing why I did it”. Now it has happened again with another girl who is a bit younger so just moving into that space. Six months ago they referred to each of as “my sister “. And, again, it’s terribly painful on this side.

There is probably nothing more you can do for now other than carry on as you are and allow time to help. Kindness, communication and unwavering commitment will eventually win.

Your ex won't have the same influence as she grows up and moves out in the next few years. You may (hopefully and with faith in your dd being a strong and intelligent young woman with her own sense of right and wrong) find she consciously decides to reassess and make her own mind up when all her contact and interactions with you aren't being monitored, observed and criticised. She will see this parental alienation for what it is in time. You're doing the right thing putting her first always and not making this a painful fight but resolutely being a constant source of unconditional love in her life. I imagine your ex makes her feel awful and disloyal for not hating you too.

My dd has spoken to me for over two years and second is indifferent and now also lives with exh. I know girls need their fathers from an evolutionary perspective so like you keeping lines of communication open for when they are ready; no looking back, only moving forward. Hopefully when they are ready, it feels easier for us both to reconnect. I see them as my daughters now, not my children; a mindset that they are young adults. They can mss as me the lives they need at the time, but have the option to change their minds. I do feel bereft though. It’s hard being mature about it.

*hasn’t spoken to me

I feel angry for you op. That is terrible.

OP I can understand your pain a little though not the obvious parental alienation.
My DD1 & I had always had (I thought) a wonderful relationship. But when she hit 18 I was suddenly to blame for everything that was wrong in her life and she turned to her father more and more (we were and are very much together). I just could not understand it. The more I tried the more I seemed to dig out he hole deeper.
It went against all of my mothering instinct to pull away and let DH 'replace' me in her life. She had always been close to him but never as close as she and I were.
It hurt like F**k to have to sit back and roll with the punches.
I did very much as previous posters have suggested, kept in touch , didn't expect responses to my messages, didn't engage in situations that would (inevitably) become confrontational and was patient.
It hurt like nothing I have ever experienced and coincided with her going to uni. We went from me being the one she would message from school if she got a good grade to hearing about it all from DH (who previously would be hard pushed to even name the A levels she was taking 😂).
The resentment and hurt was indescribable.
But, against all my urges I was just 'there'.
I think there's something unique in a mother daughter bond in which they maybe feel safe to kick back at you because they know you won't reject them, she most likely knows how much you love her and will always be there for her.
Maybe she feels like she has to fight harder for her fathers love and approval right now and she sees the easiest was to prove that is to reject you.
I have no doubt she will be back and your relationship stronger as a result.
You sound an incredibly strong, loving mother and I'm sure she knows that to be true

Does anyone have any advice or hope for me? I'm terrified we will become estranged. I'm desperately trying to buy a house in the same town she is in, but lost out on one yesterday

leave the door open and be welcoming when she does come to stay, but don't try to hard. Suggest take away and film night if she is coming over but if the answer is no don't take it to heart - that sort of thing

girls and there dads can be complicated, you'll always be her mum and remember the girlfriend won't know as much as your DDS best friend, her dad may think he know her but will be blind to much of what your dd is really about

and yes if you leave the door open and don't push, but be gentle and welcome when she does come then eventually over time shell know you're a safe parent to trust and be with - but it may take more time than you think