Husband incensed at 50/50 idea

[jorisbonsun]

Hi I just need a perspective on my husbands position and how he might be thinking.

Married 6 yrs and children. Both agreed to split (he has been horrible, lying about money and affair etc) I know that doesn't come into financial decision. Will have some sort of shared care arrangement.

I've paid about 25% bills since we moved in together. Both brought same amount into marriage. I had long mat leave, went part time, now retraining and also do some freelance work.

He was a massive earner after our marriage, but it's all been put into loads of different investments and accounts.

He's furious that I have even suggested a 50/50 split as start point. He tried to give me a lump sum. I saw a sol who said this seemed like nothing in grand scheme. He's still mad and wants me out of house. Im staying put, asking for full financial disclosure then getting more legal advice with view to agreed financial order hopefully. I know it needs to get sealed etc. I want out from his dodgy ways and businesses. I don't have lots of cash for a solicitor in meantime.

He's making me question myself as if I want to grab all his money? The whole thing just makes me feel ill tbh I just want a secure home. Can anyone give a view on all this. Thanks

Wanting financial security for you and your children doesn’t make you materialistic. It makes you sensible.

Oh no no don't let him get away with this, 50/50 split as a starting point and you stay in the house, he can be as furious about it as he likes, he's only himself to blame. Good luck, honestly get good legal advice, find a way! Xx

Who cares what HE thinks

Get yourself a kick ass lawyer as I did

Did the solicitor you used checked if you were entitle to legal aid?
If not, get to the CAB so they do this for you.

Solicitors are very expensive but the The Which Guide to Divorce (you can get it from Amazon) all the general stuff you mess to know so you just need to use solicitor time for the questions that are very specific to YOUR case. If you take the time to read it, it can save you £1000s.

A lot of solicitors’ time is spent by the client seeking reassurance or what they would get, just remember the solicitor has no crystal ball, every case is different. You are entitled to more than half of the kids are staying with you most of the time, don’t doubt yourself, forget about reassurance and just fight for it. With all your might.

Keep a record of all the nasty stuff he does from now on, a factual one without your opinion, just what he did or say to upset you, if things get nasty enough that can help you to get an occupation order until the divorce goes through.

The solicitor can also get a quick order to ensure he keeps providing for you and the kids until you get to an agreement if you are in a low income.

More than half IF the kids are with you … not half of the kids!

You’re entitled to 50/50, or more if you have more custody of the kids. Don’t forget pensions too, they can be very valuable. Should’ve kept it in his pants and been nicer to you, shouldn’t he?

And also, the affair can get you a faster divorce but not a higher percentage of the assets. The dissolution of the marriage and the separation of assets are two different court processes so the affair or other nasty behaviour has no bearing on the latter, the latter is most likely to be decided on the basis of need and the starting point is always 50/50

Don't guilt yourself that you're being materialistic. You're not. You've earned it. It's a bit like telling your boss you don't want your salary cos you're not materialistic. It's yours. You've earned it. It's for your dc.

One bit of advice - when you're sorting out who has the dc - make sure your ex knows that if he has them on eg a Tuesday, and pays a day less maintenance accordingly, then that means he has them from school pick up time, on school holidays on Tuesdays, if they're poorly on Tuesdays, if they have a dentist appointment in a Tuesday etc etc. it also means he's doing the morning school run Wednesday. my ex went for two days per week having them, but seemed to be of the opinion that meant picking them up from mine on his way home from work at 7pm and dropping them at mine in the morning at 7am. Because 'but I work'. 'Yes, shit for brains, this is why I couldn't work full time too, do you get it now.'

@jorisbonsun hang in there. It's tough but will be worth it.

@TheVanguardSix

He may be fuming, but 50-50 is the starting point in divorce proceedings. That's where the courts start. You could even get 60% to his 40%. He can be pissed off all he wants but if he were smart, he'd just get on board with that ratio because you BOTH need to house and provide for the children.

If I were you, I'd start listening to the SmartDivorce podcast (this has been my education among others!). It's all about finances and it's brilliant.
Wherever the money is, it all must be disclosed in what is called a Form E. He can't avoid disclosing where all the bodies are buried.
Everything that is in your financial pot: investments, pensions, cars, house, all of it will be thrown into the pot and divided 50/50 or perhaps even a bit more in your favour. It's hard to say. But what won't happen is your husband will get 70% and you get 30%... not in a month of Sundays would the courts put your children into such a scenario.
I would pay for a consultation with a good barrister rather than do a free consultation with a solicitor. Message me if you're interested and I'll suggest a couple of them.
Also... do NOT accept any lump sum from him. Let the courts look at all of those investments/assets- the pension can be HUGE for some people and can be the biggest asset of all. So don't let him throw you some crumbs when there's a whole loaf to be shared.

This isn’t where the courts start…that is often misunderstood There is a set of around 10 criteria the courts look at in order to determine the fairness of settlements. If all of those can be met and a 50:50 settlement given then yes, that would apply. But it is NOT the primary criteria.
The courts do assume that for a marriage of a decent length that all assets are joint. But it does not mean that a 50:50 split of those joint assets is a rule- it certainly isn’t

Does he actually want 50/50 custody of the kids?

The 50/50 financial split should be based on you both equally sharing the load with bringing up the children. You sound unclear on whether this will happen. He may say he wants 50/50 custody just to get a better financial settlement.

Op, familiarise yourself with the 10 or so criteria the courts use in determin8ng your assets split if you took it all the way to court. I sugg3st you also give your husband a copy of this. You can find these on the Mediate site or Advice now.
Then discuss with him the f@ct that

1. He has to do a financial disclosure. Even if you agree between yourselves for a consent order, the court needs to see the D81 form with your legally signed disclosure that has to be full and accurate. He can be taken to court for falsifying this,
2. He can read, accept that you will both be worse off, then engage his brain to reach a sensible (and compliant with the set of criteria) agreement through the consent order route. Or he can kick and scream his way through it, spend a fortune in solicitors or even court fees and end up in exactly the same place. His choice. He’ll be worse offf for it after solicitors take their £200 plus per hour. And it’ll take a lot longer.

Give him time to read and digest these criteria and to come to terms with it. It is a hard bullet to swallow, but seeing it written out and him taking the time to work out what that really means is probably what is needed right now.

Try to rise above the arguments and not engage or panic. The more you can put your feelings aside for now, and work through it as a practical problem that needs solving the better. Save your hurt and anger for when you get the decree final

As already stated
You are not automatically entitled to 50%
You are not necessarily entitled to more than 50% as primary carer

You could be entitled to more
You could also be entitled to less

No one here knows
Will be depend your own circumstances and assets / debts and earnings (potentials) etc
Hence why you should seek advice from your solicitor

@Candleabra

Does he actually want 50/50 custody of the kids?

The 50/50 financial split should be based on you both equally sharing the load with bringing up the children. You sound unclear on whether this will happen. He may say he wants 50/50 custody just to get a better financial settlement.

He says he does but this has never happened yet so I suspect it's not going to happen long term. I'm not sure if he is saying it tactically or genuinely thinks it will work. He has a good rel with them and does some drop and pick ups etc but mostly just the fun stuff while I make sure nothing important missed with school, diet, dentist, clothes, bedrooms etc.

I'm a bit trapped though as with no other family support and most friends a way away I can only increase my own earnings (for now) if he steps up. Short term trying an actual fair split time-wise because I need him and I to see how this works in practice. He's already moaning about how he will manage so may not last. Can bear all in mind when negotiating later.

@millymolls

As already stated You are not automatically entitled to 50% You are not necessarily entitled to more than 50% as primary carer

You could be entitled to more
You could also be entitled to less

No one here knows
Will be depend your own circumstances and assets / debts and earnings (potentials) etc
Hence why you should seek advice from your solicitor

Of course absolutely, there is loads to consider and I'm not assuming anything at this point. I'm just needing to hear some experiences and ideas for how to manage initial stages. I'm working with best and worse case scenarios in my own head and know I will cope as I'm a fighter and work hard. I just suspect I will get taken for a ride unless I adopt a position like his (with no moral compass and only thinking about myself first!!)

I'm also not paying sol for ongoing negotiations at the moment. Will just pay when reviewing his financials and negotiating as needed... so interim advice is helpful, I'll take it all with caution though

I just suspect I will get taken for a ride unless I adopt a position like his (with no moral compass and only thinking about myself first!!)

No you are adopting a position that is fair and puts the children first. Which is why you are looking at a 50/50 split.

@jorisbonsun: he made a commitment to you and has gone back on it, I’d be angry esp re affair

You say you are ‘doing more work than normal’. Don’t. Do the same or less to maximise your position then ramp it up once the finances are sorted

OP. My DP gave 50% of everything to his ex wife - no kids. 3 year marriage.
She doesn't work as she never did so it's hard to get skills now at 40 (surprised someone said a wife has to show full time work?)

The fact you will be raising little kids - I'd assume you're entitled to hell of a lot more.

Godfather of my child gave his wife 80% of everything - that's because it meant he pays her out in one go; she has no claims to any future earnings or pensions. She was a high flying lawyer before she gave up her career to look after kids.

You are in a strong position and do not let him knock you down mentally.

@comfortablyfrumpy

50/50 is the start point. A court might think you should ha e a higher share. Please make sure you have good legal advice. Some solicitors will take fees from eventually settlement- ask yours.

Is he really going to do half the childcare?

Your H is trying to intimidate you but you need to stand firm for your children's sake.
Please find yourself a Shit Hot Lawyer (it may be that yours is one) and find out where you stand .

Good luck x

This.

My mum let my dad bully her out of her fair share. She still has a mortgage at 70. He has 2 houses and 400k or so in the bank.

Do not roll over.

This is the strength I need right now! Thanks again everyone. I think my lawyer is a SHL and at the end of the day it's just security for the kids. Strength to all others dealing with this crap

If he really is a massive earner and you have young kids I wouldn’t be suprised if you’re entitled to spousal maintenance. On MN people say it doesn’t really happen but pretty much everyone I know who was married to high earners has it

Remind yourself every day that his feelings are not your responsibility. If he tries impose his feelings or will in you then that is harassment and abuse. If you both have lawyers he doesn’t need to discuss the divorce or offers with you directly.

The extent to which you can grey rock when living together is limited. But neither of you should be discussing the divorce in the home, especially if it is getting heated. Tell your solicitor that you want to address this formally. That might be successful with a letter or you may need to build a case to secure an occupation order.

I would urge you not to debate the basis of your entitlements or to try to explain anything to him. He has a solicitor and that’s where he can play out his interpretation of the law. But the law and how it is applied won’t change no matter how either of you interpret it. Your solicitor will guide you on when to settle and when to fight on.

I’d also urge you not to overthink his skills as a parent. He may not be anywhere near as experienced or good at as you. But that won’t factor into any decisions. As long as he is a decent enough parent he can be a Co parent for anything up to 50% of the time. The reality of this probably won’t work for him. Rather than battle for it, let him ask and demonstrate how he can make it work. Be clear he is on his own with them and that you won’t step in ever if he has to work or go on a date.

At the end of the day if he is livid about the way divorce law works he can write to his MP.

Yes SHL up and a forensic accountant. They will make sure the law is followed.

Be a stuck record “ I only want what the law says I am entitled to”

If be looking for more than 50/50 in the situation you describe.

He can be as angry as he wants, keeping him happy isn't going to house and support your kids. Get as much as you can to support you in building your earning potential and provide them with a decent life. Feel no guilt.